Im tired of hearing about this mess. everyone in here needs to take a pill. Im sure my argument has been raised or forgotten or whatever
but the rule the LN faction is violating hasent been changed yet.
SO because you earned it a LONG explanation of why.
Lets begin. T H E T R I A L
Started as a thread in the comm section this trial was to decide the guilt of having illegal goods within the sphere of liberty space. Official parties to both factions joined this thread. posted in this thread and things happened that caused many face palms.
Even admins got involved in this thread specifically asking if the .:j:. felt it was something we were taking seriously, or not. I can most assuredly tell you we did. We took everything that's happened to create that situation seriously the problem is our expectations from such actions. The trial thread had posts removed, things reworked but still. in an act of brazen congressness things went down robots where released and people expressed their shame and distatste for these actions.
By itself there should be no problems here the thread is a WORK OF FICTION in a FICTIONAL UNIVERSE created for FUN AND ENJOYMENT.
The main issue of the legitimacy of the thread being considered a true and balanced "trial" is in serious trouble. The loose and lackluster provisions for how binding rp in threads are (meaning THERE ARE NO RULES its an HONOR SYSTEM) this leaves any and all conflict to the cooperative spirit of those participating and if they were smart with the ending figured out ahead of time. As in clean. cooperative and constructive. im sure we would all be having more fun with it instead of someone.. LOSING thier mind and saying weve lost ours cause of what happened in it.
So get this clear right now you're not going to get an iron clad agreement out of an open rp thread by its merits alone (admin opinions included) you aren going to see anyone get to force any parties acquiescence to the proceedings of an rp thread that concerns and OFFICAL FACTIONS or IMAGINARY PEOPLE because not all the members may agree to it. again unclean preparation.. Stupid train wreak not withstanding.
RP is like a cake. you need all the ingredients or it turns into Not cake.
Everyone involved should have planned the trial made it a wonderful story for all to see and worked with the parties involved if at all was needed to enforce any real effects of it..
but ill bet your bottoms.. none of this happened.. thats what makes arguing about that thread moot stupid and a dead issue.
Before you start screaming Huggie is a meta gamer and what he said was meta gaming. Maybe if the thread was made clear to be "active" role play where no one truly knew who was going to do what or.. it was moderated in some form or effort to the satisfaction of all parties. I would say disregard what i said. and the comments would still be.. dumb.
who cares? its their rp go to the writers feedback thread tell them they suck at rping instead of levying it at a WHOLE FACTION and its ENTIRE CALIBER of rp.
BUT IT ISN'T.. it looks like a story in progress. A story that should be fun to read. etc. happy lightness good feelings.
a story that should be practice for those writing it to exspress themselves in creativity and fun!..
SHOULD BE.. anyway.
lets move on to "logic"
Binding? LOL
that trial is laughable. navy and police all work for the same master. liberty gov. so your going to ask a group of junkers to exspect a fair trial when the accuser and the judge are working for the same sovereign body? No dice.
Ever wonder why it was more common for ships at sail to Shoot seize and scuttle? there are no trials at sea or in space! only on land! look it up its a FACT.
This is a disagreement between sovereign entities and requires a third to be a mediator. the lpi isnt distance enough the venue isn't neutral.. already the fact there's guns and violence in the first place blows the thread into the territory of "loony" . BUT still permissible cause its fiction and creative you got a problem with that want to get serious?
You already did it wrong so you might as well save yourself by clinging to the fictional side and the authorial licence your trying to hang others with.
In reality this is less judge judy and more UN security council.
bottom line handled terribly no cooperation no "play" and its a shame to all involved i dont care who you are. it was a rush to cement the legitimacy to the PR raid which is the source of the rule violation.
As for the hilarity that caused the trial. Congress is of the opinion.. predominantly that the zone of influence is covered in the server rules specifically the pob rules.
Quote:Locations
- POB's built in House space, as listed below, are subject to House laws and fees.
- POB's built in non-House space that are bordering a House system, as listed below, are not allowed to be engaged for lack of payment, should one be issued.
while the incident sprang from the willful use of the authority granted in the lsf, ln id specifically the ID does not overwright the pob rule and its ALL INCLUSIVE LIST of what house space is. YOUR id says you can operate per your ID within.
Quote:Zone of Influence: Liberty, systems directly bordering Liberty
But your threads claiming influence in PR the levy's, fines, seizure, threats of investigation. forced demands for docking permission. These are all forms of adversity that has been denied to you by that rule. as well as the spirit of faction right 1.
While the raid may not have been "illegal" per-say the sanctions and efforts after are covered on what you'd call "Inclusio unius est exclusio alterius" The inclusion of one is the exsclusion of the other.. meaning statutes, laws, rules under moderation adhere to that axiom.. WHATS included is. Liberty: New York Alaska California Colorado Ontario Texas
While there is talk of the deconstruction of the guard systems and essentially the authority of Faction right 1 its still exists in the rules the system is still it its spot from wince it was created and thus I can only guess the faction right 1 is still in effect.
While none of this proves guilt of either party the most you can derive from all of this nonsense?
A skirmish.
Thats all it was and thats all it ever will be. you want to make this mole hill into a mountain then you better start fostering more adult methods of debate and moderation because whats going on right now? DOES NOT WORK.
Its there in the rules. levys and actions from fines cannot be acted upon even if we decided to not ignore you anything that comes will be at the congress's pleasure.
Now dont get me wrong.. Im not siding with anyone here I learned from that mistake Im tired of HEARING this crap.
Im pointing the finger in all effin directions. ALL OF YOU need to sit down and realize this isn't cut and dry and this isnt going to be won or lost by bullying OR playing the victim.
I wish i was done there. But im not. Bear with me.
Specific concerns.
posts #258-268 here express astonishment, righteous indignation and peanut gallery musings that are all answered by one line assuming Echo is the OP or is expressing the truth.
Quote:Cleared it with the OP? Actually, that's not the case. No members of the Liberty Government (henceforth abbreviated as LibGov) granted permission or acquiesced to aggressive roleplay inside the courtroom, and certainly did not give oorp or inrp permission for weapons to be brought into the courtroom.
Thats it. the proof ladies and gents. If it isnt correct me but the point is not miss-able.
its not a real thread. The mere fact there is no cooperation for the production of this rp means its an act of power-gaming. of stupidity should be deleted maybe both factions too.
When all parties cant agree no contract no agreement nothing exists. its the right of every living thing to NOT do business with another NO is a legitimate response.
ANY rp is done against the will of ANY party no matter if one group has the character GOD ON EARTH IE known from now on as Chuck Norris,
Its power-gaming as soon as he turns your Coke into a Pepsi. Flicks you on the nose, or posts actions that severely limit your response or defense.
IE in 3 year old terms. NOT PLAYING FAIR.
You start dictating what another character does without "permission" your power-gaming, your attempt to passively do it? Its power gaming,
to rp without consequences IS unfair. But if you want to knock the congress down a peg bounty the faction, bounty the bases do something intelligent instead of this forced ego spectacle that's fallen on its face.
Do it within the rules. if you want to antagonize them god know wed love the reason to drive the activity numbers up more.
Misunderstandings? Or over reaching?
It is a lot easier when you have an ID in the server and it says you can shoot party A and not Party B, within this list of places and the holes and gates attached but this finer point of rp fairness seems to be lost on the realm of the greater events that occur on the forum.
The id isnt the only rule or authority it doesn't give you the power of a fleet of ships to steamroll who you want.. SURE those POB's look like tempting targets but that's not gonna mean you steamroll the whole system and erase the specific player faction from liberty.
the id does not trump the spirit of fairness this community has and the rules to enforce it it all comes together to safeguard something VARY important. and its balance.
Each faction is a puzzle piece removing one part of it screws the picture and basically its as easy as saying we have just as much right to play how we do and play where we do as YOU do. and if you dont agree.. Thats your problem. without vexation and nemesis you have no opportunity to role play your conflicts or struggles.
Life can be a platitude and orderly but no one wants to PLAY that game.
no one wants to PLAY the game where official factions can take each other out with cleaver word play maneuvering and base sieges. I sure as heck know that no one would bother making one after that. because eventually your going to tick someone off and theyll just start rolling the gears to remove you from the map and off the server and then were just encouraging an envoirnment OF bullying and powerplaying.
The glorius part of disco is it DOES change but people dont get taken out its a fertile garden with many verities that grow up amongst one another. and hopefully where the interpersonal crap takes a back seat as much as possible.
this bs puts it in the front seat.
Let be and let live.. should include let play if you don't agree with that than it IS your problem. It isnt what kind of a place this is.. your free to make your own clubhouse and hate who you specifically think is the problem.
again... This is directed in all directions. Ive heard it.. everywhere. even from me and im trying my best to keep things personable and not personal but this is a communal playground and if i didn't type my rant here and now id be in dereliction of a duty to keep it that way.
But its soo vary vary hard. the only thing i know is without the full diversity.... the mod falls apart and everyone instantly wonders WHOS NEXT on the chopping block.
There are rules so factions play balanced and fair and the pob rule is being ignored the words say money.. oh liberty did demand money ON THE FACE of what we had on those bases any issues stemming from those bases is the color of that rule. IE they arent your concern and never was.
Docking rights being forced on the congress is a form of levy its giving up their power and their right to DEFEND their guard space as they see fit. Int he eyes of faction right 1
Levying the congress for the contents of THOSE BASES of which they have no claim or right to boss around when the RULE SPECIFICALLY prohibits it by including a lists of systems called house space TRUMPS whatever the heck you post in your little list of laws in the comms section.
rp and ooc rules are not separate universes their designed so that everyone is equal and can cooperate in their "play" so that the quality of play isn't degraded to "force play".
The idea is the enforcement of RULE 0 to be calm cooperative and fun. Once that goes out of hand? were all lost. its so close to breaking.
breaking it willingly? cause of some minor vendetta that 99% of the server doesn't give a rats about? well to say you wouldn't make an enemy of me would be wrong but i would know better. I would know there was NO saving it and nothing keeping me here for real. fingers in all directions guys. thumbs at me too.
The end. I promise.
The trial thread maybe getting played around with still. But all of this fluff thats inflated the feedback thread? is no different then the rampant run on ridiculous witch hunt crap that went on in nomad threads. Their the same tomato. leave the thread to those permitted to post there and those people talking about it. But beyond that? its no ones business its a story that's it.
Its the same Disco cancer. its a symptom of the fact there are strong and BLIND opinions concerning the factions of all around and frankly i am honestly ashamed all the sides have let this go on this far.
I mean who do we think we are?
finally.
Bob do you honestly think that an rp thread should dictate anything when its not a cooperative endeavor? For that matter should the Original poster retain all the rights powers and abilities of god that you as an admin would have to enforce new rules it creates or new lore it alters?
This wasent handled at all. And i dont think letting it just be decided by the community will cut it. because this whole mess is ignoring plain and clear as crystal rules. its turned into a situation where a lawful house faction can bully and size and alter the rp of ANY FACTION it wants to in respects to its player assets treating them like some transport in a trade-lane when its not.
THE POB rule stands and should have stopped this from escalating and enforcing those rules IS the admins job. and to find a creative and good compromise IS the admins job when we idiots cant do it. and were BEYOND CANT right now.
MY ONLY SOLUTION here is im interested to see how the rule enforcers feel about enforcing those rules? Will you stricken the posts of levying and demanding purto rico being open for the navy when the COMMUNITY RULES says they have no right to? Will you favor ONE factions rights over another?
I want to get the collective answer on this. Before anything more happens. I mean literally this could all be moot with the Map update occurring (soon?) then we will be WAY WAAAAY out of influence ID and server rules wise and the whole incident will be retconned anyway cause the "universe changed".
You could take that way out. But id rather see you do your jobs. RIGHT OR WRONG.. PICK A SIDE and I would suggest if the admins do side with the lib gov nonsence that the congress willingly and completely surrender to whatever they want.. NO rpd completely surrender. EVERYTHING.
Thats what i would do. Because honestly. it what everyone would want.
