Zoners - why they do exist?

[n00bl3t]

I was hoping that pointing out an example I find to suit Zoner RP best would also be seen as a subtle suggestion on which direction to improve general Zoner Roleplay, you know, as a possible fix to "supposed current problem with zoner rp".

There's not so much a problem (unless you count the fact that there's not much to do on the actual ID courtesy of heavy nerfage) with the Zoners as there is with the attitude of people with problems of there being a Zoner faction in the game with a complete shipline.

As an OP, I request closing this thread or simply erase posts with ooRP rage and off-topic things.

You ever going to respond to those posts which addressed your point? Or just ignore them?

And you're displaying the attributes of the problem. Core is not Order (or Corsairs etc.). We do not need to beg Zoners for supplies and get extremely worried when those supply lines are threatened because our diplomacy hasn't limited us to a very small pool of potential suppliers. And even on the subject on screenshot there's more roleplay to support being supplied from non-zoners than there is from Zoners (shout out to our Junker allies).

As sone constructive critism perhaps Zoners should start treating factions on a case by case basis, rather than blindly charging in with a stock fr5 template.

Indeed Zoners do sit still sometimes, but often they try to force themselves into environmental politics that do not concern them as much as they'd think - nor is their influence or relevance as big as their "I'M A ZONER FEAR ME" mindset.

Yeah. House corporations want to supply the BHG in the edgeworlds instead of their own government or themselves, thereby denying them a stake of the resources. That makes a lot of sense.

Zoners are unlikely to want to know you when you demand compliance from them and shoot up their base. The visual aspects of the ships are the only difference between how you operate the core and nomad NPCs.

If it isn't in your RP to cooperate, you're not going to get cooperation.

I doubt Zoners care about BHG unless they're powergaming a way to take over Freeport 11 or hanging around a Freeport looking for drama.

The key difference with the Core to other Edge Worlds faction is that they do not have the hostile diplomacy that prevents them from conducting trade with houses and corporations. They do not need a middle man like the Order does with Zoners. For a very long time, back in the earlier days, (BHG) Core had a direct link from Rho/56 to the Houses (in the form of Halle). On top of other factions delivering supplies, they would also fetch their own supplies via APM as well (albeit less than the external suppliers). And recently Rho has connected with Rheinland once again via Luneburg. Their reason for supplying the Core is either sympathetic (the whole "we're the true protectors of humanity!" propaganda) or because they're getting paid either in credits or in research materials and technology.

If Zoners are reluctant to get acquainted then I don't mind. The Core RP is to oppress, under the guise of protection. They're not supposed to be nice guys under all that propaganda. Having genuine political conversations over how the Core acts with Zoners is quite an interesting experience (kudos Karst) although unfortunately rare. This infocard sums things up:

The Core is an indirect enemy of Zoners such as me. They are bent on bringing regulation to our home in total freedom, despite us leaving the houses for their rules in the first place. We do not want their laws, taxes and oppression. Many of us will not admit it and none of us could actually do something about it. The Core is an organised military and the Zoners are not even united by definition.

My gripe stems from that - rather than pursuing logical RP and diplomacy - Zoners jump straight to the FR5 wagon and then find themselves very confused and prone to crying when, not just Core, factions don't play along and start to ready their guns. Just because you lack a rephack in your diplomacy sheet does not necessarily mean that faction inherently owes you anything. It's the same case with piracy as well. Your neutrality won't give you an auto-shield against a credit/cargo demand. If an individual Freelancer or something adheres to FR5 threats that may be fair enough because they are simply an individual. If an entire faction doesn't then don't act so surprised, although as I said it may differ on a case by case basis. Some factions may be closer to you than others but even then it doesn't necessarily give the Zoners more gravity than the other faction.

I forgot about that "hey I made my own trade faction so we aren't limited by supply routes any more" ploy.

Whilst in the same breath you deride on other faction's trying to free themselves of their own limitations with such tactics.

That's the definition of hypocritical.

I'm curious as to what the developer opinion is on the supposed 6th house popping up in the Omicrons with the Core. Or is that just your own thing?

No-one mentioned anything about neutrality and piracy so I can only assume you're trying hard for poisoning the well. Don't think I said Core owes Zoners anything either, so I guess that's a straw man.

As for cooperation, you were the one praising CW for theirs. I just suggested a way you might be able to actually cooperate better with Zoner factions in future.

AP Manufacturing was actually the creation of Athenian back in 2008. It was made to explain the origins of the ship line, with supplies being a secondary objective, hence why I said "albeit less than the external suppliers". Primarily, external supplies are where the supplies come from - but that doesn't mean the Core/APM is unable to partake in supply fetching themselves (whereas other factions cannot due to diplomacy issues). I haven't been judging factions for having their own logistical branches, though (presuming you were talking about OSI) I just think it's quite odd that Zoners would band together and form a Corporation and eventually establish a government on a habitable planet given the Zoner roleplay. Zoners having a logistical branch certainly makes sense, but in regards to the extent OSI has developed to it makes me feel like they've left their Zoner roots.

Or perhaps do you mean freeing themselves of an ID limitation, so that they can trade in the houses with a Zoner whale? Joking, don't shoot for me that . I wouldn't call them similar cases however.

In regards to Dev opinion, Core has always had domination and conquest of the Edge Worlds in their sights (since the NPC factions inception in the earlier days). You're being pretty ridiculous to imply that a 6th House has been established already, or that I am trying to present it as such. I don't know whether to laugh at your own ignorance or to take it as something to inflate my own ego with. Regardless, primarily it's about the steps towards that end goal and the infocard I posted earlier provides an adequate telling of how the Core is meshing into the storyline.

It seems like you didn't notice me trying to get back topic when I made my comment about neutrality shields, and explaining the issue with the way Zoners function in Discovery and how they end up in trouble and the ooRP drama that occurs as a result. I wasn't chaining on a specific comment. Yet again you seem overly desperate to drag Core into the matter of zonerzonezoner. I don't think either side owes each other anything, however there was the implication that Core should be more grateful to Zoners as a means of supply - or at least this is something other Zoners have tried to express.

Your suggestion for cooperation was about as straightforward and useful as a blank road sign. Although, can't believe I forgot to mention this earlier, there is the Canaan group (I think they're Zoner ID'd?) that Core| has RP'd with quite heavily for the colonization of Nauru as well as other projects. Overall though, I would prefer Zoners and other quasi-lawfuls to adopt simple RP rather than taking ham-fisted approaches to deal with a situation where the likely response is just going to be retaliation or something else less desired. When I am making this statement I am applying this to all factions across Sirius.

I know. I was there. He'd probably have a good chuckle at the idea that APM suddenly allows for unlimited supply chains for what is the Core militia and whatever else it spawned into under Agmen before you took over. I'm curious as to how you maintain dedicated supply lines in the edgeworlds. If it's not from Zoners, then I'm wondering which house corporation in lore would supply you and elevate your ability to dominate the edge worlds, when house corporations have their own interests in the edge worlds along with the houses they're allied to.

The developer point was aimed at anyone else reading to chime in with facts supporting your ideology of the Core end goal and along with supply lines information. You're free to ignore this. Aimed at developers.

Neutrality shields is a moot point since people get blasted and rules cover it.

If you're going to come into a thread and blast an NPC faction for a whole host of things under the sun as a faction leader of another faction in the same ZoI which does equally ridiculous things, then I think you've got to be prepared to take some of the heat for situations which occur out there. However, I do understand that taking responsibility is hard and I imagine it's why you don't have a feedback thread.

The irony about ham-fisted approaches is hilarious coming from the faction leader of the core.