(03-20-2016, 11:08 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: I just read Tides of Change (it's a good read). Excuse me if I've missed something though. Now, there's mentions of Omicron-100 throughout that document however that's entirely fair because at the time I don't think the decree that guard systems were not canon had been given out yet? But what's problematic is letting Guard System spawned RP occur in modern disco, and continue to let it happen. Whilst at the same time, other factions have to roleplay around that and get shouted at by the communty doing so whilst the perpetrator gets off freely.
Reading Tides of Change, and your post, it's focus on what Order lost. That is fair and all, but I am talking about what they did to build back what they lost up until 822/823 A.S.
Beyond not using our capitals for months and months, sticking with gunships and Fighters to simulate the fact our fleet was nearly wiped out? And furthermore, most of the ships I did list, like the Oathkeeper, Svizra, Osiris, Spectre, Ghost Eye, and the Sarco and Heiro, are all old. Build back up? We've barely been able to build back up because of our low resources. Literally the fleet is held together with Order-grade duct tape and pure tenacity. We can't build our fleet back up to Pre-Fall strength because we are not bankrolled by Liberty, like apparently the Core has been? We might not have overtly done it but we have had Phoenix deliver supplies before they disbanded, and after Kemwer we've brought back fuel, hull plates, booze. We've done things we don't document religiously.
Quote:Why is Evora crowded with ships? How or what has Order done to create that overcrowding, and the repairs that would be done to fix all those ships back up? Order is not self-sufficient, surely they would have had to have contacted or made new allies in order to rebuild? I doubt Order would have been able to do this on their own. You'd need resources, especially from external groups. It's just so nonsensical that a magic super fleet suddenly comes pouring out a secretive system with no third party as witness via any role whatsoever. In the case of Rho, people delivering supplies via the supplies board would have seen i.e the Jupiter in the shipyard scaffolding.
How has the Order created overcrowding? The fleet list I showed earlier is what. Osirises were doubled up INRP, the gebs tripled, the Reshephs quadrupled. All because we didn't have the presence of mind to go through and organize that bloody thing doesn't mean that we're pulling a fleet from our asses. As for that random fleet I had no part in that so literally I can only account for the ships I mentioned above, and none more.
And new allies to help? We strengthened our stance with the Blood Dragons, reached out to the VWA to created the Sigma Alliance, we have been working to strengthen ties with CR, RHA, and now, after I returned, have ended the Cold War with the SCRA. We've made few new and strengthened the few close, and we keep on reaching out. There's a reason we inrp don't field a million caps, why inrp we aren't going around cloning and all. We're busy focusing on restoring what we lost - the Cells that watched the houses, the Fleet that watched the Nomads, and the build up is showing more now then it did before. We made Kemwer and are giving it to our allies, I've begun resuming House Cell Operations.
And no, we don't have the resources. But you know what we do have? Close relations with the Zoners who do. And that's where our help came from. We sent out a call around that time for help, for assistance. The Phoenix heard and helped, and that's where at least the refits and retrofits of the older craft to combat readiness came from. INRP we're still overbooked in the drydocks, but you know how hard it is to log a gazillion ships to show that? Very hard. So we opted to show through actions, not a million pictures that are deep in archives around the forums.
All because we didn't overtly show it every step of the way does not at all mean we just copped out and said 100 had a secret fleet behind Braga waiting for the call to invade Dabadoru. Maybe you should wonder why more people logged Order ships then Core, and worry more about your own roleplay and how you're going to terraform Nauru and keep Yaren secured, before complaining about systems that have literally been said either they'd be fixed or are looking at being fixed?
Quote:This is the problem with Guard Systems. They're hoops of fire that factions jump through, and when they come out they have holes burned into their jacket. It creates situations that sadly encourage the factions themselves to powergame, creating falsehoods of who they are and what they have access to, and RP with themselves off the back of a system where they have 100% control over what elements float and what don't. You want to say you've harnessed the ability to control black holes and make ships that are powered by them? You got it - thanks Omicron-85. You want to say that an entire system is self-sufficient? Omicron-91 can get away with that perfectly. Official factions have had complete control over things lore wise in these systems with no dev input. You could pretty much get away with writing or doing whatever you wanted.
Next time you're in a Guard System read some of the infocards. It'll be interesting what you find :D
I checked Rho just to be sure. It was pretty much a carbon copy of 100 infocard wise - pretty boring stuff. Actually the only difference is that we tried terrarforming Planet Braga. We failed, and made Mora station to keep an eye on Omicron 92. Fun fact, nothing in 100 can even attempt to show powergaming, as every planet is useless and the asteroid field is rocks, rocks, and more rocks. Nomomomom can make rock people at least. Literally we didn't get away with anything, and we don't. So there, I read my Guard System infocards for both Order and Core. Pretty much same gist. "Oh it's our system and we have a shipyard and station and like it's where our capitals are based out of" and all that fun stuff. Our main difference is Lisbon was made to watch the JH to Minor, and Mora to research 92. Of which their only crime is...an IFF saying Guard.
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Thebes itself is currently in Omicron Mu, and it's got a normal Order IFF. I don't doubt the validity of the ship at all. Apo used to be in 100 - so it's validity and origin could be considered dubious - however it's been moved into Delta, so it's existence is undeniably canon right now. Which is fine. I don't doubt the validity of Mu either, it's not a Guard System.
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Yet Mu operates just like Rho, which barely has any enemy patrols. It's mostly safe, like 100, which still feature Nomad patrols in certain areas, like Rho has the Order patrols near the Delta Jump Hole. So it literally doesn't exist any differently from your Rho, or Mu. Literally 100 is off the beaten path and needs some tweaking sure, but outright deletion is going too far.
Quote:What you're inferring throughout your post is that Order needs 100. Not trying to be snide or cynical here, but it doesn't. The system isn't canon and has no impact on mod lore. You can just consider everything you've done stuff you've done in Omicron Mu instead, essentially. But bringing non-canon elements into something like an Official Story Event is bad. Even worse when some factions can just ride on the wave of "do whatever we want" whilst other factions that try to preserve consistency and sense get railed no matter what. Hypothetically, if Omicron-100 was axed it wouldn't change anything in the Order's roleplay makeup. Trying to force it into canon lore creates holes and issues for factions around them though.
No, no we cannot. Why? Mu wasn't colonized until after the Thebes jumped in and wrecked it's engines. We charted but never got to colonize it before we got wrecked at Minor, so saying EVERYTHING HAPPENED IN MU is ridiculous. Is 100 axable? Sadly yes, because the devs say so. But with that logic in mind, let's axe Rho and stick you in Luneburg. Or maybe Eta. Or somewhere else. Doesn't feel good, Rho being chopped up and divided does it? Alabama a few sectors away from our Mora maybe.
We don't want to lose 100, because not only can it EASILY be fixed but we spent a lot of roleplay in a Guard system that was quite honestly one of the most underpowered guard systems ever. No abundance of materials, no abundance of anything but rocks, rocks, and more rocks. But above all, why do I fight for 100? because it's one of two systems the Order has. 100 was where we tested Thebes, where we perfected the Geb and where we developed the Bastet. That couldn't have been done in Minor, it was too dangerous to make the Thebes there. It couldn't have been done in Mu, we hadn't even found it for most of it.
Is it a problem we used a Guard System? Maybe. But the real problem lies not in a system, but in the intent and in the Faction Lore itself. And last I checked, we roleplayed it as merely a system. Not our great powergaming godsystem, not as the source of our power, but as a place to build our fleet and try and make a new home. And, failing that, moved the Order High Command to Lisbon/Evora to ensure their safety as Minor was slowly, slowly attacked.
So if you would kindly refrain from accusing us of powergaming when we haven't powergamed at all, when we have made allies before and after Minor that clearly explain how we do things, and refrain from accusing us of just copping out roleplay all because we don't bend over backwards to post every single little thing we ever did, that would be appreciated. Because, in the end, we did more of our "build up" roleplay ingame using visual assets, such as our extreme lack of any cap above the Hathor, and our reliance more on Taskforce 141 to help rebuild Thebes' after it's damages.
As for "holes for everyone around us" No Lyth, it's only holes for Core. Holes that are filled by the fact we have no control of who logs for events, who goes to fight in the events, who decides on WHICH SIDE they log for. We only control ships tagged Order|, ships that listen, and finally, we control 100. We control the fact every asset it has is either a useless decorative fixture, or one of three stations: An aging defense station, a station built using leftover equipment from a failed terraforming, and the one Order station that is now the center of all Order activity - Evora.
But you know what, who cares. Let's delete 100 instead of fixing it. Let's delete Londonderry instead of fixing it. But if we're doing that, delete Rho, or move other factions into it. Because two stations in Rho? Who do you people think you are, some god-blessed empire who can field fleets comparable to Liberty?
