Clarification needed: foreign navies with enhanced ZOI enforcing rp consequences

[Jack_Henderson]

Just to note, the rules for FR5 are quite possibly going to be changed soon, especially regarding smuggling.

Welcomed change, however the issue is not restricted to smuggling.
It encompasses literally every law violation, some of which can have far-reaching consequences (e.g. docking of factions illegal in Rheinland at Freeport 1 in O3). And we know the amount of mess that "hostile docking" can create alone.

I begun long discussions with Rheinland lawful community during the summer - where we begun to build the new treaty for the Omegas, primary concerning the borders of the both Houses or in short Omega-3, for Bretonia, and Omega-7, for Rheinland.

The fact that the IMG (with 2 NPC and 1 POB in O3/7) was not contacted and asked for an angle on such a topic leaves a bad taste for me. Were Zoners contacted? Going by "significance of base placement" or "likely impact of change on players", Omega changes should at least have their opinions heard. See old treaties (Like Snowdown) in which also the now-marginalized factions had a say and were included. Courtesy would have it that there is discussion at least on a player-player level if you want to exclude them in the irp treaties, which of course you can do.

During these discussions there was something of great importance - both sides agreed that each of these omega systems fall directly under their control but most importantly - the opposite side would follow the laws of the House which system they are currently present. In short - RM/lawfuls/ would not touch anyone else in Omega-3 and would not bother to handle things that they might find illegal simply because they are present in Bretonian territory. Absolutely the same "rule" falls for bretonian lawfuls. I will also add that Rheinland dont want Bretonian lawfuls inside Omega-7 on top of that Bretonia dont have interest at the moment to go so far...unless its needed in critical situations like assisting RM against Corsairs/Nomads and other "Omega enemies" to both Houses.

So, any situation you presented here and were mentioned in the main thread about this change - are simply not going to happen due to the agreement between our communities - bretonian and rheinland.

Alright. You agreed. It's nice to know and I appreciate it.

However: You do know that your agreement means nothing when it comes to the hard reality whenever Disco mess happens.

1. You cannot control indies. As long as they stay inside their ID (which now has O7 as ZoI), they can go against your roleplay (which is non-cannon) and you can't even FR2 them to follow your roleplay as long as they follow their ID. And they do not break it. So if - let's say - a group of players decides to go against your official faction agreement, you can't do anything about it.

If, for example, a group of haters inside Rheinland lawful players decided to make a Rheinland Military extremist squadron to police Aland/IMG in O3 with Rheinland law, THEY CAN. Do not tell me "they won't" because that is irrelevant. They can. And that is why this is a rule issue and not a "but we talked and agreed..." issue.

2. This is not only an O3/O7 Rule Change issue. It is a general issue whenever "law regions" overlap. In cases in which a situation is not clear, rules are needed to keep mess from happening.

There is no need to boil the oil and grasp the lighter - for the things are not going to be so grim as most of you are describing them.

I think I made this thread here in a manner that clearly shows a rule gap and potential exploits and damage. That's not "inflamatory". I just know rather well what could happen to Borderworld dwellers (IMG/Zoners) when there is no clear rule definition of these cases. If I had been asked in this month-long process, I could have pointed out the ramifications of what this could mean for the non-house players. As this obviously has not happened, this is the only way to get this necessary discussion.

PS: Currently neither BAF nor RM can fight properly in these Omega systems. The point is that inRP things are moving well between the Houses but in OORP level - speaking about the rules of the ID and any possible violations - both sides were with tied hands. For example RM in O-3 fighting next to BAF lets say the corsairs...would lead to RM being sanctioned due to fighting away from their zone of influence

I agree, it was somewhat messy. However, it also kept the Omegas as a piracy route and raid targets attractive. Sitting on the O3/O7 gate is a good spot. I know, lawfuls hate that when the target jumps outside of ZoI and I know this well enough. However, this is in my opinion what the Border Worlds should somewhat be: you can get away with crime to an extent. It may be not satisfactory for House players who cannot project their power on these pesky pirates or raiders. Sure. But perhaps that would mean that other entities in that region should have more of a role to play: Bounty Hunters are lorewise the force to "police" these areas. Corporate militias also. Both have the ZOI to do it. Perhaps the Navy is not even meant to be the group to do that job - perhaps think about this aspect also.

So, while I of course see the problems (like a player-list pirate jumping into O7 when BAF enters O3 from CAM), I think that part of it (not the meta part, obviously!) is a feature, not a bug.

Also as a participant in Corsair raids, I appreciated the O3/O7 ZoI division line a lot. It made arranging and balancing fights easier when the raiders could choose whom to fight. Yes, it is kind of artificial and an oorp thought, but it is also no fun to find yourself killed by 2 House navies. I think a certain danger of overdoing it is there definitely - however time will tell this one and I somewhat trust officials to try not to have a Crezi-Bergel-Wraith gank on the next Sair raid.

...as for the indies - you are aware incidents can happen and will happen but I am sure both sides will attempt to guide and control them.

And, to return to the rulewise problem, I can only say: I appreciate your attempt, and I am surprised by your optimism, but you cannot control them, and that's why ZoI needs to be a rule aspect and permissions need to be fixed and clear inside the ID or the rules. Veterans know that every opportunity will be exploited by a few special people.

Thank you for explaining your point of few. I appreciate it.

Jack