(09-27-2020, 04:56 AM)Typrop Wrote: wow, a game predicated on social interaction behaves like any environment where social interaction takes place? color me surprised
the irony is much of this reads like the same level of anti-bullying rhetoric in american schools, as though institutional policy is going to change the fact that people are just naturally going to exclude certain individuals and behave based on their own particular set of views, with the same level of obfuscated ineffectuality present
here's a hint, if you try to get rid of circlejerks in a community, new ones are gonna pop up elsewhere, or they're gonna be modified to cope (see: individual is technically part of a group, but is more or less an outlier, and the group will go against their desires out of spite) because fundamentally any community is going to be comprised of circlejerks, and the highest argument for actually doing away with player governments is so somebody, or a group of people, that does not understand the lore and the character of the government in question, willingly or unknowingly, doesn't drive it into the dirt with the same level of gusto as circuit city crashing and burning in 2008
tl;dr social politics are dumb and adding institutional policy to prevent them just makes the politics more draconian, this thread is a waste of keystrokes
Thank you for laying bare your views, especially because they are unfortunately not as uncommon as one would think here, in era where humanity has managed to build societies that were able to split the atom, go to space, and permit instantaneous communication between individuals almost all over the globe. They are, without exageration, the reason why the island in lord of the flies, oceania in 1984, and the animal farm look like disneyland compared to disco.
I dont have enough time to adress the root of the problem which led you to conclusions like "social politics are dumb", but I will adress what seems to be your main point of "ciriclejerks will always exist".
Let me begin by saying I am not at all oposed to circle jerks in general.
You wanna take your group of friends that all think alike and dont give a toss about anyone outside your group, and do the best you can to destroy da enemy? By all means, give it your best shot. I have always oposed those here that say "noob groups and friend groups that arent integrated in disco only cause problems and should be forced to submit to the vets". That's draconian, toxic, counterproductive, stuck up, ignorant, and mean. Everyone should be able to have their circlejerk in which they can do what ever they want as long as they stick to the rules. Make your unoffical faction, stay an indy, and knock yourselves out. Declare war on 95% of the community, and fight with them to the best of your ability. Go for it, I'll defend your right to have that circlejerk with my last breath, and god knows I have done so many times in the past, to the ire of the circlejerk in power.
But what we actually DONT need is for Game MAsters, Admins, Developers, House Governments, and Official factions that have additional powers over people outside their circlejerk to become a circlejerk. Those guys can NOT go to war or disregard 95% of the community. If the reasons for that arent obvious to you, I point to what happened to Louis XVI, the brit in murica, and Muammar al-Gadfafi. And to the fact that those nations that undertook stringent measures to keep circle jerks out of their governments always overtook all the others in the long run.
Yes, circle jerks will always exist, and if you keep them out of one place they will jsut move to another. But there are definately certain places (governments, police, judges, juries, and bridge safety commissions) where it is ABSOLUTELY worth it to keep them down, if not out.
Comparing Disco circlejerks with real life dictators the demise of whom was caused by a plethora of complex socio-economic and international phenomena is very insightful, bravo. Mentioning "Lord of the flies" which shows how a human society can degrade under pressure, the troubles of post-war kids in England, and how easily cults (be it religious or of a person) can be created is also veeeeeery to the point of circlejerking. About Oceania and "1984" I will not even waste the breath - the link to circlejerking on Disco is obvious. Same is illogical the "conclusion" that being in a circlejerk (which is nigh inevitable in a game with a community) leads to antagonising 95% of the other population - you are speaking here for the rest of 95% community that itself composes of multiple circlejerks, most of which do not give a damn about problems of inclusivity of another circlejerk. All in all, you haven't really refuted anything of Typrop's argumentation. As you aptly put it in some comment before: "non sequitur".
I totally agree with Typrop. People will group up based on their personal preferences, similarities in opinions/interests, or other reasons. It is natural. Imposing artificial institution to forcely open up certain circlejerks will eventually lead to creation of another circlejerk. Speaking of LIA - see no issue here, the LibGov had a vote democratically. Similarly to how political parties are registered, there are certain criteria in the heads of LibGov for evaluation of a faction when admitting it into the gov, and apparently LIA failed. Giving their lore a read, I can presume the reason.
