Governments, OF and [LIA]

[Karlotta]

yes i am a grand force of regression in the human race
it's a video game

You alone? No. The views and mentality you put forth (in your posts here and also in places like discord), when held and put into practice by many people, in society and not just video games? Unironically yes. But that's not the point I was making, as I was talking about this gaming community and not societey in general.

As mentioned earlier and being the point I am making, these views are also a main contributing factor when it comes to this community's inability to solve the "social" problems they have in this video game.

I dont have enough time to adress the root of the problem which led you to conclusions like "social politics are dumb", but I will adress what seems to be your main point of "ciriclejerks will always exist".

cool then you shouldn't mention what you aren't addressing because it can be made abundantly clear in work that you aren't addressing something by simply not addressing it, referring to the idea that you are not addressing something only works when the topic is contentious and there is a likely misconception applied to the work, typically derived either from the title or the topic

I'll mention what ever I please, thank you. If you have trouble understanding why I would say this, it's because elaborating on everything I said fully would open a whole new can of worms, involving things that happened in the past, which still affect you in disco without you even being aware that they were ever a thing. I can go ahead and explaina small part of it though, as I got a little more time now, especialy since Gardarik touched on some of them anyway.

Mentioning "Lord of the flies" which shows how a human society can degrade under pressure, the troubles of post-war kids in England, and how easily cults (be it religious or of a person) can be created is also veeeeeery to the point of circlejerking.

The book is actually less about "humanity degrading under pressure", but rather about how the accomplishments and merits of the past (the knowledge and discipline to question and resist your primal urges, which the kids on the island dont have) are necessary to keep society functioning at the level it does. Without it, we revert to savagery. It's actually a very good analogy to disco, and to the "who cares about trying to keep circle jerks out of power, caring for all members, or sticking to the rules we agreedon earlier, lets do what we want" attitude in particular.

About Oceania and "1984" I will not even waste the breath - the link to circlejerking on Disco is obvious.

Not the circlejerking explicitly, but the "having power for the sake of power", and "deciding what the truth is depending on what is must convenient for our circlejerk" aspects of criclejerking, which are integral parts of it. I could tell you episodes of the past where this becomes more clear than it might be to you right now, but that would be kind of boring and repetetive. I'll just say certain people in power said some pretty dystopian things very similar to "all animals are equal but some are more equal than others" when it came to passing OP gear to their favorite factions (such as PHantoms and Keepers), and like "2+2=5 if the party says so" (sounding like "if admins dont say its a rule violation, then it isnt, and when they say it is, then it is"). It's quite possible that you have no idea what I'm talking about right now, but its none the less true that disco is still "under the spell" of those people, because they started the "conspiracy" memes all the idiots here are still evoking, they wrote the rules that no one after dared to improve, and they put in place the circlejerk type recruitment that is still used today in disco.

Let me begin by saying I am not at all oposed to circle jerks in general.

and i did not mention that you were, though you seem to believe that there are certain "terribad" circlejerks that need to be removed

And I didnt say you mentioned I was. The line is there to put what I say at the end into context.

You wanna take your group of friends that all think alike and dont give a toss about anyone outside your group, and do the best you can to destroy da enemy? By all means, give it your best shot. I have always oposed those here that say "noob groups and friend groups that arent integrated in disco only cause problems and should be forced to submit to the vets". That's draconian, toxic, counterproductive, stuck up, ignorant, and mean. Everyone should be able to have their circlejerk in which they can do what ever they want as long as they stick to the rules. Make your unoffical faction, stay an indy, and knock yourselves out. Declare war on 95% of the community, and fight with them to the best of your ability. Go for it, I'll defend your right to have that circlejerk with my last breath, and god knows I have done so many times in the past, to the ire of the circlejerk in power.

you're the one putting words in my mouth chief, i only care about noobs when they start doing actively dumb things (a very frequent occurrence, mind) that are counterproductive to things like, i dunno, roleplay. you also wouldn't defend me in the slightest because you're already presenting me as an objectively antagonistic force and asserting that i just hate new people by default (which is verifiably false)

I'm not putting words in the mouth of you or anyone specifically.

Saying "if you want to do that, I will support you" doesnt even imply that you want to do it. It just says I would support you in case you did.

Saying "I have opposed people who say noob-friends-groups are bad" doestn even imply I was talking about you.

So you were putting words in my mouth there.

But what we actually DONT need is for Game MAsters, Admins, Developers, House Governments, and Official factions that have additional powers over people outside their circlejerk to become a circlejerk. Those guys can NOT go to war or disregard 95% of the community. If the reasons for that arent obvious to you, I point to what happened to Louis XVI, the brit in murica, and Muammar al-Gadfafi. And to the fact that those nations that undertook stringent measures to keep circle jerks out of their governments always overtook all the others in the long run.

yes and you don't realize that, among other things, you're talking about changes in government and not social cliques. governments are not, in fact, cliques on their own. cliques are frequently things like an aristocracy, a political party, or upper management in a company, and if you're looking for a more viable comparison i can point you to standard oil in the united states, and how anti-monopoly laws only constructed a system wherein standard broke into various companies (like exxonmobil) that now cooperate to achieve the same overall goal of controlling the market via special interest groups, lobbying, and other things most people don't hear about, because they want to. just as much as people want to play a video game with their friends and exclude things they don't like because that harms their own perceived fun.

I'm talking about leaders who appoint their successors and co-leaders without tolerating desenters in their midst. But sure, go ahead and refer to one case in which breaking a monopoly didnt work out as intended.

Yes, circle jerks will always exist, and if you keep them out of one place they will jsut move to another. But there are definately certain places (governments, police, judges, juries, and bridge safety commissions) where it is ABSOLUTELY worth it to keep them down, if not out.

let me break this down for you really easy

person wants to do something (influence liberty government)

person joins group of people that want to do the something (joins libgov)

group is discouraged/rendered incapable of doing thing they want to do, or from removing something they do not wish to deal with via legislation (like, say, keeping certain people out of libgov due to theorized rules being put in place)

they find a loophole, or means to do the thing without raising suspicion, or just flat out become malicious (say, voting against a person to nullify their desired influence)

they keep trying to do thing (exclude the person from influencing libgov processes)

red tape just means people find a way around it, and again, this thread is a waste of keystrokes, particularly yours

Dude wants to murder another dude.

Murder is made illegal.

Dude finds a way to murder the guy and get away with it anyway.

Let's legalize murder!

You can replace what you said with literally anything. You're invoking a "nirvana fallacy" pretending that just because a solution isnt 100% perfect, it's not worth it. Something that people in disco tend to do a lot when it comes to defending the indefensible in order to shift the odds in their favor.

1. Write down how you want Officials Factions to behave, concretely. Make acting responsibly inside a house government part of it.

2. Apply those criteria when granting officialdom.

3. Write down how you want House Governments to behave, and make sure they do, instead of keeping them some vague "you can do what you want but not always" circlejerk that only accepts people who fulfilled god-knows-what criteria to please current members.

It's not that hard.

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