Replies Thread

[Binski]

After reading your 30th or so Post of you pushing your idea, I have decided to respond to one of them.

Why don't you set up your own Server (many have done it before), implement your Combat System and advertise your Server.

You can become Admin of it and set out whatever Rules you want.

All those people who want to shoot POBs 24/7 or supply POBs 24/7 will naturally migrate to your Server.

When your Server has a regular 200+ people on it (I can even suggest 100+), you can then turn round to the main people of this Server (Lead Devs) and say "I told you so".

This way you can 'put your money where your mouth is' and prove all the naysayers wrong.

With all your followers, setting up and paying for a Server shouldn't be a problem.

So, the ball is in your court and now it is time to prove everyone wrong.

Probably the same reason you don't migrate to your own server and leave this one to me to try something else. I can still put my money where my mouth is here easily if you guys were willing to knuckle down on it, what real harm could come from trying? What are you all that afraid to lose, that we havn't already lost from the place being empty? So you can rub it in that I can't do any of that myself, but I can rub it in that those who can, also seem to lack creativity in what to do with a game like this. Its not about sieges, its about giving players collective use of force, that requires activity to fuel, that is fairly laid out and administered.

But its true I have a backup plan. One of these days I'm gonna get super rich, and I'll be buying the Freelancer franchise. When I do, I'll live the dream one way or another! I guess instead of writing RP stories here, I'll start submitting to Viacom or Disney, since Star Trek and Star Wars are in desperate need of writers that are experts in the core lore of both franchises, and that's me. Apparently I might have to save those worlds first, then return to save this one. Maybe I can convince one of them to buy Freelancer to breathe some life into the place.

That system will literally save this place in days.

If you truly believe that, you are seriously delusional.

Nope I'm confident if we implemented this system, within a week we'd see a noticeable jump in average server population. You'd be surprised at what actually creating something to do online does for getting people online.

If someone... anyone... really enjoyed what you describe, all they have to do is build a pob where it's bound to get sieged. Fact is, people like building stuff, but they absolutely hate having to defend it. If they now have to constantly defend literally everything in the game unless they want to see their focal points destroyed by the bunch of trolls and bullies that everyone knows we have, they are definitely not going to love it.

Everyone I know who loves the game but doesn't really play it (and that includes myself) is not short of "things to do". We have lots of ideas, projects, ambitions, and willingness to invest work.

The Nr 1 reason why we don't log and/or work on it (or continue the considerable work we already invested) is that we know with 100% certainty that it's going to be blocked (or is already blocked for years) / stomped by some little twat in some position of pixelpower like OF, government, staff, or "comfortable with the the latter" for no other reason than we'd be stepping on "their turf". Be it creating open-for all multi-purpose immersive POBs, noob-friendly factions, simply going on space adventures with random people you meet (omg you cant go there with that faction even though your ID permits it! you have to join X faction for that!), creating an actual strategy for improving system/JH layout, making the rules halfway comprehensible for new people, putting rules and lore and explanations of game mechanics ingame. Everything is "someone's turf" and if you're doing something that challenges their authority/dominance on it, they make sure you won't get anywhere with it.

The system layout is fine, the routes and trade lane system is fine, we just need people. And like you said, since we know its all locked there is no point in really trying. Yes we need fixing of some silly things, and some minor things like changing the in-game chat list to no longer show system, and only region, so traders will be forced to trade and take their chances flying instead of waiting someone out.

So, again, its not about the sieges, they are an outlet that would compel people to grind with purpose, and remove the constant anchor that hangs over us, that we can't really do anything to effect the game world except via the forum. The name of the game should be that we come to effect the game world, and its ok to keep caring. They wanted us to care so much here when it was good for them, and then not when it was inconvenient.

The outlet will entice people to get back to grinding, to be prepared, for whatever may come. A siege may be a thing a faction saves up and waves over someone else's head. The threat of the ability to use force as a faction to get real change done would completely change the atmosphere here and removing that 'cap' is the actual #1 thing that would begin to fix this place's decline.

Many people have given you the reason many times:

Sieges suck. Especially for the defender. Losing their stuff in sieges is one of the main reasons why people leave this game. People don't want to have to defend their favorite things in the game 24/7 and organize their professional and private lives around being able to log to defend it.

Why staff isn't able to tell you that simple reason, and can't come up with anything better than "make your own server/mod and if players don't migrate from our busy server to your new empty server that proves your idea is wrong", which is a cop-out that can be applied to literally everything, you'll have to ask them.

Sieges don't suck! The most fun I ever had was defending POB's here. Some we lost, others we didn't. This is why I suggest shifting the major focus of sieges over to NPC bases. The main concept is the bases don't get destroyed, they get 'reduced' and that allows them to be taken over by the offenders. The system I made is quite fair, if a defending faction has the scidata saved, they can buy their own 'counter' siege.

You all think of sieges as only groups of caps gathering to attack and another forming to defend. But that's not the main point here. The system would allow you to place a base under 'seige' but you would have days to muster an attack, and mostly could send in 'parties' and let attacks happen in droves, in small groups going in to inflict damage before defenders arrive to drive them off and try to supply the base to make repairs. We have a perfect siege system set up here, and again I find myself saying that it hasn't been used to its full potential. All of that would generate countless hours in trade, supply, defense roles like mercenaries, 'scouts' or observers (spies heaven forbid), bounty hunters, etc.

The point is that the sieges can only be kept going if factions earn to keep them going. Or a battle comes, a faction makes an attempt to take a base, if it fails they can try again in the future. That creates a never ending [open ended] situation. No more cap on activity because its pointless. Let players build up, gather interested parties, form alliances, etc, all gearing up to try to expand their territory (with limitations on how far that can go, which is why I wrote it so only certain bases even qualify to be attacked).

The other point is that between these sieges, people have far more reason to go back to work keeping up on owning ships of various classes, upgrades, gathering scidata, which can include many other methods aside from mining (like mini rp events?). The increased opportunities means eventually, someone will start trying to capture a base here and there. The player base will then have the option, like any event, to get involved for or against. This is just playing freelancer people, you have all been doublethinked into seeing a normal functioning healthy server as unimaginable.

That is indeed frustrating. But seriously, you're not helping by continuing to push this 1 thing almost nobody agrees with. There are 20 other things that could make the game better for everyone with 0 negative contra points for anybody (for example an actually fun noob progression that teaches lore, rules, and game mechanics, better guidelines for OF and government behavior, better armor upgrade + gear progression. I know staff tried with the last armor upgrade revamp. But make an UA with 0 cargo that costs literally nothing? just... wtf... do you evne think before you do stuff?), which aren't being done either.

But so far I've seen no better suggestions, and nothing but fragmented suggestions on how to best proceed. Sort of like you with the rules changes, I set out to seriously tackle the problems that face disco, and its pretty obvious. I keep pushing because groupthink can sink ships and its only a few individuals that pressure everyone else with fear of ostracization to keep them in line. Make this system a reality, and we'll see plenty of those complaining be left with no choice but to get involved, or let it go and let others who will do stuff step up. I guarantee you, within weeks factions will actually see membership go up again, because they will become what they should be, a method to get things done. The system provides guaranteed avenues, as the maybes of 'apply and maybe you'll get this or that' is exactly why the place can't grow or evolve, it just doesn't make sense, and hasn't for years.

And yes, I have issues with some other things but I stay on this issue because I know it will fix some other problems all in one. The little things aren't so bad when there's lots of people online, and the only way to fix that is change our mode of operating, and see if that makes a difference. Seriously, everyone here should be as desperate as me to turn it around here, because otherwise we are just watching the place decline, and it will result in all of us having years wasted when the place just ceases to exist! Or becomes the most empty corner of the internet.

Also a little history
Rheinland
- Runied by PoBs. Tsingtao siege, behavior of attackers, defenders and shenanigans around it and the subsequent petty retaliation hostile mass set of PoBs is something Rheinland hasn't recovered from to this day as many people quit or abandoned the house for good.

Bretonia
Spiteful PoBs and sieges started a circle of hate and lack of fair play it will never recover from in my opinion. When it looked like we could turn it after Gallia lost Zoi more sieges happened and all was lost. Will of me and pretty much everyone else to make it a "normal" house broken.

Crayter
- To this day that was the dumbest decision I have seen in disco, a stupid "not serious" siege against people from own faction without talking to them first splintered Crayter, it hasn't recovered since.

Liberty
- Colorado siege harmed Liberty lawfuls for a long time after. Attackers don't realize it, but many people on the lawful side haven't logged properly since.

Omicrons
- Core was struggling for a long time, but when Corsairs, by an order of magnitude, shot more nomads right next to Nauru meme PoBs than Core OF did, the days of the OF were numbered. And that was by inaction, they didn't even do anything and it was enough to set them back a bunch.


Gallia

Hey what do you know @Binski we tested your idea in an event!
[Official Event] A Noble Funeral - March 5th - 7th

It was a RP liner "PoB" whipped by admins. If it would survive it would Become a RP asset. It was meant to last whole weekend.You know what happened Gallic Lawfuls logged 13+ people during working hours on a weekday. Base lasted 2 hours and defenders never got within 30k near it.

Now there was very little griefing about the PoB itself since nobody built it, it was just meant to be a little fun stuff for the mighty ex-enclave to do like the good old days. And you can do this with the dual PoB thing. But nevertheless, it was a pointless stomp.

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Contested Sieges always bring a short spike of activity, followed by burnout and net serious harm to the region in the long run. I know it, you know it Binsky, this is why we both know you will not put any effort into testing your theory with the tools available as you would fail miserably at finding 2 sides willing to siege each other . . .fairly with good sportsmanship without causing long term harm.

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To also address your first post, no offense, but no one cares if you build a couple of POB's, over months, just to provoke one short, terrible battle. No one cares because nothing makes them, the way its set up is that not fighting is the best way to win and get what you want in Discovery Freelancer. And that's why its dead here.

I saw that liner event, but to me that was not really the same thing. Again, no one really cared, there was never any real risk. You guys want this place to be full again, do what you all avoided for 10 years, since its the solution to our problem, and coincidentally the one thing they avoid supporting.

Let NPC bases be at risk, let the real repercussions of a base changing factions play out. Yes the real repercussions will see every battle full on both sides. Some may be hesitant at first, but after the pier pressure finally dies, people will realize that we could go back to freelancer where we immersed ourselves in caring. So if an unlawful faction did ever lay sieges to a lawful base or planet, the only way to keep the place alive is if you let them care, let them choose a side, let them get involved in a real way. We all have skill to contribute to any situation, or resources, to be used for the best of our ability. The place actually tried to remove that aspect to reality you'd get here, which was the original point of Freelancer!

Yes you should be able to specialize as a bomber, or spy/scout, or merc/bounty hunter, etc, and have stuff to do in game, not just pretend. Turns out its not so impossible! Just need to use some of these years rolling by to stop and actually tackle the big problem. So if people could finally stop worrying about who might get credit for what, or for saving Disco, we could try a new thing that undoubtedly would open up the place with many new opportunities. That would get old players to come back more, to use what they already have in stuff and knowledge but to do new things with them finally.

As to the sieges, again, the point is not to only have constant fleet battles, but opening up a 'siege' on a base means it becomes in jeopardy. That gets people moving, and yes, its fun to defend real space from a real attack! In the end, you'd find that with each siege, players would divide up naturally, and have something to do for a week. Yes some places could fall fast, others not. A siege costs a lot so it may be a huge waste, its a real gamble! That's what we should be doing here, yes we can have that without player fighting ruining it. The best way for players to deal with their problems, is online! Remember, the sieges are only a bummer loss for as long as the defending faction has to work to earn their own siege, ships and players. Don't you see how it would work? It never ends, there is no 'our base is gone for a year or more now', it only ends when the players get tired of it. The changes would be as permanent as the player situation.

So no wonder the Liner situation didn't go well. Make each base like a Core 4, make them real NPC bases that it matters what happens to it, and it would be different. But yes we'd need to ease into things, but after a few months I think it would work just fine.

The rest is, the only way to see how it would play out is to test it! Yes there would be unforeseeable circumstances again, and that is also something that should be seen as beautiful! It would be like Freelancer 2 right here right now!

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