(11-19-2023, 02:57 PM)pillow Wrote: You do realize the irony in this post, right? Echo chambers? Really?
"You are wrong and I am correct" isn't how you disprove someone's arguments.
"You are wrong and I am correct" is not how I disprove someone's argument. If you believe this, you have not been paying attention to what I post. Research my posts to see how I disprove someone's argument. I review their ideas and logic to determine faults and potential risks of their claim. I'm either given additional information that makes my ideas invalid or may provide more faults or risks to their original ideas. That is how you debate.
One of my favorite quotes from a mentor of mine from the military - "I don't care where good ideas come from. I just care about good ideas". I've even backtracked on something I said when it was brought to my attention by Couden of all people. COUDEN, one of the most toxic players in this community but... damnit, he had a good point and I acknowledged it.
In several POBcast episodes I've had disagreements with either Zentor (a good friend of mine who I almost met in real life this week before my car broke down), another host, or our guest where I was introduced to a new idea or way of thinking that has made me change my stance on things. So while I do surround myself with people that I can trust and have integrity, I refuse to befriend "yes men". I accept when my ideas are challenged as it makes me a better person if I determine that my way of thinking, my logic - whatever it is, is faulty and incorrect. I will stand by my opinions and logic until they are cornered and defeated. Through further discussion I will learn and alter my logic.
So if you are implying that I, myself, am in an echo chamber, you best change how you research somebody before coming at them personally unless you enjoy being served a slice of humble pie again.
Now, to Haste. As much as I hate that it takes a big rant to draw your attention, I appreciate your reply and taking part in this discussion. However, as discussed numerous times in previous discussions, your equation and ideas lack the very things that you yourself just mentioned - NPC influence ("trade lane disruption in New London and you might as well see if a staff ship is in town), obstacles, gaps in trade lanes, piracy, sharp angles in trade lanes (and hope you don't get tapped by an NPC patrol). Your equation lacks the most important number - distance. The longer the distance, the more the barge's advantage diminishes. Given my experience, after 4-5 systems, the 5Ker ends up being more efficient. I don't have numbers but I can test this again and provide my results to you if you like. There will be a distance where the barge is no longer the advantaged ship - the 5K'er is more effective.
Your post is also the first time I have seen any mention of reimbursement regarding the barge. What the number for 'partial' means will be interesting to hear. It would be nice to make this public knowledge as barge owners who are either disenchanted by any further discussion about the barge or have the left the community entirely are tuned out. Something official would be nice and I would help spread the word.
The refineries would be a dream scenario for barge owners. It's not something that I put a lot of hope in since I know that, despite Aingar's awesomeness and coding skill, would be a hell of an effort to pull off especially if there are other fires to tend to first. I have proposed, on several occasions, to at least give the barge no-clip. This would at least keep Sirius open to trade. My other suggestion, and something I offered to assist with, is open only trade lanes that cut through asteroid fields or other obstacles. I was willing to complete a report of which trade lanes could be open and which ones may remain closed. I can understand the lore inconsistency but if people want to point to this as a game-breaking inconsistency, I can point to several others including in PVP.
As far as being "proven wrong" - I've posted this several times and this will be my last time doing so. There is consistency when a topic is introduced, I and others reply saying it's a bad idea, and either get no reply or a reply involving something else entirely. This is a known tactic for people to never admit that they are wrong. Whether that is the case or you are doing something else that I'm unsure of, I have no idea at this point. In threads such as this, we have provided rational, logical arguments on why the changes to the barge would cripple it and ruin the experience. Well, guess what, the majority consensus of the changes has rendered the barge useless. Sure there are some that have some utility out of it. Are you going to hang your hat on the few that are happy over the majority that are unhappy to the point that some have even left the community entirely?
Assuming that barge pilots are all money printers and we got them only by doing the broken VIP trade is simply incorrect. Providing some kind of reimbursement would also help with alleviating the pain of having an expensive ship reduced to either storage or a floating brick. You seem to have reversed on your original stance of no refunds/reimbursements and your verbiage in your last post indicates you might be understanding now that not all of us obtained our barges through the broken VIP runs. That is progress but is also alarming that it has taken this much effort and time to get these stances reversed. It may even be too late to bring back those disenchanted by the several changes made by the patch and even prior to.
I'm exhausted by this topic. Haste, if you or anybody else wants to have a rational discussion about the barge, send me a PM here or a DM on Discord and we can have a discussion (again). I highly urge you and other devs to actually listen to what we are saying. The players are the life blood of the community and this community has been leaking blood for quite some time now.
It ain't about what you are capable of, it's about what you're willing to do.
