Discussion of Order Council

[Tenacity]

The Order and LSF are, have been, and should be "at war" fighting over control of Alaska and 90% of the encounters or fights should take place there. It's a warzone.

We dont fight over 'control' of alaska - our NPC's fight there because alaska houses the front door into our home system, and if we let the LN/LSF through into minor in large enough numbers they would have more than enough firepower to wipe out the Order entirely.

The Liberty navy and LSF still view the Order as terrorists, because we attacked ships in their space during the SP campaign, and because we stole one of their prototype ships.

The Order are -entirely- defensive in that 'war', they attack us, not the other way around. The definition of the order is a group that protects humanity against both known and unknown alien threats, we have no interest in slaughtering pilots when there is no need to do so. The only time we should ever be striking at 'human' targets is when they are infected, or are a direct threat to order security.

Anyway, to me, at least, this isn't a question of the effect on the Order, I actually agree very much with most of the proposals. The question is the effect on the server as a whole, because if the Order can do this kind of thing, even if for good reasons, then other factions can too, and not necessarily for good reasons.

Most other factions have been. Look at the LN restricting Indy capships and coming down on them with the hammer when they cause RP issues for the faction.

Look at the RM, the Outcasts and Corsairs (not so great an example now, they've both gotten out of hand as well). This is not something new to the server.

Just because Bs| say they aren't at war, doesn't mean the Orders other parts aren't. Some Order members could be a strike force attacking Liberty if they so wished.

For what reason? The only reason the order would EVER attack human targets is if their own security is at risk, or if those human targets are infected.

If the target is infected, it needs to be RP'd by BOTH sides - we will not condone someone using the "he's infected!" excuse just to kill another player who quite obviously is not roleplaying as an infected individual - that is pvp whoring plain and simple.

We're not saying that attacks against liberty are out of the question, only that they need to be planned and RP'd out in advance, and that BOTH SIDES need to be willing to RP before such attacks are made.

Right now, liberty (new york in particular) deals with daily raids from rogues, lane hackers, outcasts, corsairs, xenos, and generic pirates. They have far too much to deal with already for us to come in and add to the problem.

Tenacity! I'm surprised at you. For someone who was and is so ardently 'anti faction' you should know/remember/believe above the rest of this lot that individual actions might put down initial perception, it's always the conduct on the individual in the here and now that carries the day.

You're right, but the problem here is that, despite the fact that they are giving a bad impression, the independents (or even factioned players) who behave in a negative manner for the affiliation NEVER have any accountability. They do not take responsibility for their actions, they do not take the blame when it's cast, they simply keep on causing problems without having anyone to look up to or fear reprisal from.

Zero accountability = zero guilt when doing things you know tarnishes the name of other players flying your same ID and tag.

Now, if a fleet of four Osirises parked over Manhattan, I would call an admin. I wouldn't bother calling the Bs|'s leadership.

And that's your problem, and the problem most of the server is having right now. Instead of trying to deal with the situation in an RP manner, you expect admins and sanctions to take care of it for you.

Scenario 1: You submit sanction reports or call an admin.
-The players get sanctioned, lose their money, guns, and ships. They either cry about it and leave the server, or come back when their sanction is over with and cause even more problems.

Scenario 2: You talk to the players or the faction, and deal with the situation in-RP.
-Some of the players may listen, they may learn someting about RP, and they may restrain themselves from mindless pvp whoring in the future. Congratulations, you've just made the server a better place.
-Some of them may tell you to shove off, ignore all RP, and continue - well, in this case the only situation left is to sanction, but at least you TRIED to get them involved in server RP instead of going straight to the banhammer.

Think on that, a bit.

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