Note on The Order policies

[Tenacity]

THANK YOU for your time, Igiss. This is really what I was looking for from you or the admins, somewhat of a guideline on what the players are allowed to do so that we dont have conflicting opinions on the matter.

Now to specific replies:

Still I don't see a way how Order capital ships can get to NY. Through Alaska space? Passage to NY is supposed to be heavily guarded. Even if Order could break through, they would hardly waste their scarce capital ships for fights they cannot truly win. So, there's no actual RP ground for capship assaults against NY by The Order.

Order fighter raids both in Liberty and in other places of Sirius can be considered logical.

This is the main thing I was pushing for, I'm fine with fighter/bomber raids on NY if the players really want to go into NY to pvp - there's no reason we cant fight liberty in alaska if capships need to be involved. I think this is a small step towards helping clear NY of problems - they already have dozens of capship raids every day from numerous other factions (outcasts, rogues, hackers, etc.), we dont need to be part of that problem.

2) Player factions cannot rule over other player groups and indie players affiliated with the same NPC faction.

Selected players may have special RP for them, player faction on the whole may also have some differences in RP from what NPC faction does. But this doesn't mean that other players should follow this example.

Some unofficial diplomacy changes may get hardcoded into the mod, IF they don't contradict official story and IF they are logical and suitable for further development.

Neutrality between Order and Liberty does contradict official story, and can be approved only for specific characters or groups, but not for The Order as whole.

As for The Order leadership, I'll leave that matter for future discussions. It should be clear enough acts of The Order players should be determined by Order's diplomatic status (hardcoded into the mod) and Discovery RP rules prior to everything else.

This is fine, the only reason there was a dispute before is because we were trying to get players to stop invading liberty in battleships, and doing so was getting US sanctioned because of this rule. Now that there is an admin-posted restriction on order caps in new york, there will be no further problems with attempting to control player RP.

3) Player factions cannot prevent other players affiliated with the same NPC faction from using the guard system.

Another complex issue, and also requires further discussions. This will limit the rights of a player faction in their home space. However, it seems to be unavoidable for the future 4.85 release, since many capships are getting moved into guard systems.

Our general opinion is that player factions, regardless of their participation in server events, should not dictate how other players of other groups are playing. Special RP that differs from/expands on what's present in the mod is OK. Enforcing special RP for players who don't want it, and are not even supposed to be aware of it, is no good. Also, the fact that we allow this special RP does not guarantee that it will get hardcoded into the mod for future versions.

This part i'm still going to dispute.

Take for example the Order Light Carrier being added in 4.85. It's infocard states that it is a very rare ship, that only a small handful will be in operation. Black squadron and most Order Indies have agreed that we do not want people waltzing in and buying such a ship just for the lulz and pvp, it needs to be restricted to approved players - but with this 'rule' we're unable to enact such restriction.

Next thing you know we'll have dozens of carriers spammed all over sirius, going directly against the infocard of the ship and what most of us have reached in consensus should be the number of them in operation.

There's got to be some way to enforce that, because it's going to be a bit frustrating when we end up with more osirises and carriers than we have fighters or gunboats.

I must protest. You are rendering our extremely sizable investments largely worthless so as not to impinge on the rights of minorities, yet you're placing capships in Guard systems so as not to make them as easily accessible to lolwutting morons who haven't even read the rules. You're removing the legal basis for that method's strongest pillar, the player faction! If a player wants to fly a Dreadnought within the confines of vanilla Outcast RP he is welcome to do so, all he has to do is inform us of what he wants to do and list the basic parameters of his ship and crew. To my knowledge the only faction with harsher restrictions is the RM, as anything stronger than that is impossible to enforce. It's not like we're asking the world, here, we're trying to keep the server less clogged with pvp whores. Restrict what the factions can restrict, but don't outlaw it and strip us of our largest and most prized power, the sovereignty over our own space.

I agree with eppy here, basically factions are charged half a billion credits to purchase a guard system (after already paying half a billion just to become official), and for what? So they can point at a system and say "yea, thats mine... even though i cant enforce anything there"?

I can see where it would be a problem if factions were saying "nope, no indies can buy any ships from our system, or any equipment from our system, you're SOL" - but that generally isnt the case - all they want is for the player to prove that they are capable of RP'ing, and arent a blatant pvp whore, before purchasing the vessel.


Here's one solution: Make fighters, bombers, and gunboats sold outside of guard systems, and make cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships sold in guard systems (and require a guard ID) - then let the factions control distribution of those. Players who dont want to even ask a faction if they can use a capship can still use the gunboats.

In the case of the order, we really only had plans on restricting the carrier and osiris heavily, the destroyer and gunboat were going to be more like "ok, give me a brief rundown of your RP and promise you'll at least talk to the enemy before shooting them, and you can have the ship." - I guess the admins cant trust them to hold to that?

---