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  Discovery Gaming Community Discovery General Discovery RP 24/7 General Discussions
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Faction Control of Capital Ships... or...

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Poll: Do you think the factions should control capital ship allowance and disallowance such as the RM has done?
You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
Agree
54.60%
95 54.60%
Disagree
36.21%
63 36.21%
Other - Why
9.20%
16 9.20%
Total 174 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

Faction Control of Capital Ships... or...
Offline Xoria
12-26-2008, 04:03 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-26-2008, 04:06 PM by Xoria.)
#77
Black Hat Economist
Posts: 2,122
Threads: 244
Joined: Oct 2007
Staff roles:

Eppy, you are constantly tossing out straw man arguments to defend your position, as if the only possible options are for factions to either have total control or no persuasive influence whatsoever.

My own faction's behavior over the past year demonstrates the middleground. While I haven't been online every minute that my faction members have been online, I don't think we have ever destroyed a single non player faction member of our npc faction. That is not because we haven't encountered newbies who have no idea how to roleplay. Quite the contrary. We have gone above and beyond to involve them in our own activities, and consequently they naturally gravitate to following our example and wanting to be a part of our activities.

You don't have to boss anyone around to set a good example, nor do you have to have control over someone in order to influence them. Control is just as likely to backfire. Just look at how you react when you perceive that the Administration is making a move against your power. Individual players are apt to react the same way when some other player starts telling them what they must do. People recognize the Administration's authority, but are not likely to recognize yours as anything other than hubris and bullying. The more you attempt to control, the more rebellious you are likely to prompt some people to be; people like me in fact.

' Wrote:Ever since factions implemented the "Ship Registrations" any ship NOT appearing on that list is immediately assumed to be ooRP or a PvP abuser and was usually destroyed the moment a faction member saw them in space. Even when they DID have proper IFF/ID, until recently when it was made clear by Admins that this wont be happening anymore and if it does santions will fly.
the problem comes with the registration threads which make anyone NOT on the list a potential target for harassment or destruction. These registrations should be the other way around, you shouldnt be on that list unless you ARE the target BECAUSE you are oorp or a known pvp abuser.

Snapp points out the root psychological issue. People who have not registered on these lists are automatically assumed to be guilty and have to prove their innocence. The mindset should be exactly opposite to this.

Preventing player factions from prohibiting correctly affiliated members of the same npc faction from purchasing ships of any sort, including from owned guard systems indicates that players are presumed innocent until proven guilty by their bad behavior.

This does not mean that player factions have lost all ability to influence events within their faction's zoi, nor does it mean that player factions cannot influence, persuade, encourage, or uphold roleplaying standards within their zoi.

It would not, for instance, prohibit factions from preventing their ships being sold to members of other factions. Saying that the 101st cannot prevent a properly affiliated Outcast from buying a dreadnought does not mean that the 101st cannot prevent a Liberty Rogue from buying a dreadnought.

On the contrary, by giving someone the benefit of the doubt and not automatically assuming unpleasant things about them, you show them the respect that is due every person, and you place yourself in a much better position to influence them. People log onto a multiplayer server because they want to interact with other players in an enjoyable way. If their first experience with those players once they finally are able to set themselves up in the ship they want to play in is negative as a result of being assumed to be a capship bum, then that influence is severely damaged.

Presume that someone new is "innocent", and let their bad behavior convince you of their "guilt". This approach strips you of no options, and in fact preserves options that can be more responsibly applied later rather than sooner, and with more knowledge about the facts of the situation.

If someone proves themselves to be "guilty" of abusively lousy roleplaying, then they can still be dealt with.

Player factions preventing ship purchases (and you can't really prevent it anyway from any practical standpoint) is not the only way to curb abuse. Curb the abuse when it actually happens instead of assuming that every new person who shows up is an abuser. The Administration prohibiting the first does not automatically prohibit the latter.

If someone new buys their capship without interference from the player faction and acts responsibly, then they are not alienated by the player faction's "thus sayeth the player faction". If they later act badly, then the player faction can still act against them in the same way that some are arguing they should act against them from the moment they undock.

The ability for players and factions to influence other players is actually enhanced by initial restraint, and no power to promote a better roleplaying environment is lost.

To put it more simply, when applied to large samples, optimism triumphs over cynicism. It's a fundamental rule of the universe taught in many different fields : you tend to find what you expect you'll find.

This promotes a more stable, responsible, and enjoyable server environment for everyone.


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Messages In This Thread
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Camtheman Of Freelancer4Ever - 12-24-2008, 10:44 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Camtheman Of Freelancer4Ever - 12-24-2008, 10:47 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Drake - 12-24-2008, 10:49 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Virus - 12-24-2008, 10:51 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by NerdRage - 12-24-2008, 11:14 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Linkus - 12-24-2008, 05:19 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Jihadjoe - 12-24-2008, 05:30 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Grumblesaur - 12-24-2008, 05:34 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Cosmos - 12-24-2008, 05:36 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Nevearo - 12-24-2008, 05:40 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by kindred - 12-24-2008, 05:42 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Jihadjoe - 12-24-2008, 05:48 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Eppy - 12-24-2008, 05:50 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by torchwood - 12-24-2008, 05:55 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Drake - 12-24-2008, 06:13 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by stewcool - 12-24-2008, 06:19 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Xing - 12-24-2008, 06:29 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by guitarguy - 12-24-2008, 06:30 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Guest - 12-24-2008, 06:37 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Malaclypse 666 - 12-24-2008, 06:44 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by MB52 - 12-24-2008, 06:49 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Camtheman Of Freelancer4Ever - 12-24-2008, 07:05 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Cellulanus - 12-24-2008, 07:09 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Jihadjoe - 12-24-2008, 07:30 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Magoo! - 12-24-2008, 07:37 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Eternal - 12-24-2008, 08:42 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Cosmos - 12-24-2008, 08:48 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Tenacity - 12-24-2008, 10:05 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by n00bl3t - 12-25-2008, 02:00 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Cellulanus - 12-25-2008, 02:03 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by n00bl3t - 12-25-2008, 02:29 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Agmen of Eladesor - 12-25-2008, 02:30 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by kingvaillant - 12-25-2008, 02:37 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Yuva - 12-25-2008, 05:03 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Kambei - 12-25-2008, 05:12 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Caedes - 12-25-2008, 05:29 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Blackstarr - 12-25-2008, 06:01 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Balance - 12-25-2008, 06:28 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Tenacity - 12-25-2008, 06:34 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Cellulanus - 12-25-2008, 06:45 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Kambei - 12-25-2008, 07:05 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Malexa - 12-25-2008, 08:23 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by ryoken - 12-25-2008, 08:24 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Furball - 12-25-2008, 08:26 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Malexa - 12-25-2008, 08:41 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Drake - 12-25-2008, 08:50 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by tfmachad - 12-25-2008, 09:19 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Patriot - 12-25-2008, 09:23 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Kambei - 12-25-2008, 09:23 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by tfmachad - 12-25-2008, 09:28 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Cellulanus - 12-25-2008, 09:48 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by guitarguy - 12-25-2008, 09:50 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Ash - 12-25-2008, 09:50 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Dusty Lens - 12-25-2008, 09:53 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Markus_Janus - 12-25-2008, 09:56 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Dusty Lens - 12-25-2008, 10:03 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Patriot - 12-25-2008, 10:15 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by bluntpencil2001 - 12-25-2008, 10:17 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Linkus - 12-25-2008, 11:30 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by ryoken - 12-25-2008, 11:45 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Kambei - 12-26-2008, 12:49 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Eppy - 12-26-2008, 01:25 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Caedes - 12-26-2008, 02:12 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Drake - 12-26-2008, 02:14 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by tfmachad - 12-26-2008, 02:26 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Linkus - 12-26-2008, 02:41 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by tfmachad - 12-26-2008, 02:47 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Snapp - 12-26-2008, 04:07 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by n00bl3t - 12-26-2008, 09:41 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Jihadjoe - 12-26-2008, 12:49 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by tansytansey - 12-26-2008, 01:48 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by swift - 12-26-2008, 01:53 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Kambei - 12-26-2008, 01:55 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by swift - 12-26-2008, 01:56 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Panzer - 12-26-2008, 02:08 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Linkus - 12-26-2008, 02:44 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Xoria - 12-26-2008, 04:03 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Eppy - 12-26-2008, 04:03 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Linkus - 12-26-2008, 04:21 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Eppy - 12-26-2008, 04:37 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Xoria - 12-26-2008, 05:01 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Kambei - 12-26-2008, 05:05 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Xing - 12-26-2008, 05:10 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by swift - 12-26-2008, 05:20 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Eppy - 12-26-2008, 05:33 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Patriot - 12-26-2008, 06:03 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Xing - 12-26-2008, 06:07 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by X-Lancer - 12-26-2008, 06:48 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by teschy - 12-26-2008, 06:48 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Reverend Del - 12-26-2008, 07:00 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Jihadjoe - 12-26-2008, 07:13 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by bluntpencil2001 - 12-26-2008, 07:20 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Eppy - 12-26-2008, 07:49 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by kingvaillant - 12-26-2008, 07:59 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Reverend Del - 12-26-2008, 08:00 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Blodo - 12-26-2008, 09:09 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Snapp - 12-26-2008, 09:28 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by n00bl3t - 12-27-2008, 08:57 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by triple88a - 01-12-2009, 07:53 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by kingvaillant - 01-12-2009, 08:17 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by askura - 01-12-2009, 09:16 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by swift - 01-15-2009, 11:52 PM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by n00bl3t - 01-16-2009, 01:23 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by nankura - 01-16-2009, 10:18 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Eternal - 01-16-2009, 11:26 AM
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - by Tomtomrawr - 01-16-2009, 12:07 PM

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