' Wrote:Factions have the most capability to deal with "misuse" as they have plenty of resources, including varied ship types for each situation, skype chats so things can be co-ordinated, etc. However, faction members are also independents. Just because I am in one faction that I admire doesn't necessarily mean that I wish to accord a significant number of rights on the server to all factions. Plenty of factions have players who cause as much annoyance with a few fighters as any lone player in a cruiser. I refer, of course, to the time-honoured tradition of the PvP gank minus RP which I have, even in the last week, experienced at the hands of players from a faction of which I am myself a member. (A RP gank is another matter)
Quote:And anyways, as Sindroms said, this is not about all indies, or all players for that matter, but this is a plead for granting some sort of possible measure against people who abuse their capital ships.
Quote:quickly arguments come up like "we are stronger than you, we can bully you out, if we like", "we ll turn it the way that it ll we ll have a right to force you out, cause you have violated those three major rules" - basicly everything works.
they ll work hard to make the whole playground THEIR playground. so that in the end, the playground isn t just a playground with three rules anymore, but a playground with three rules + the gang rules.
@Athenian: I agree. These factions also have the most resorces to deal with 'abuse' of caps by indipendents as well, especially when conserning their territory, or the territory of their allies. I keep comming back to the example of the guy in liberty shooting at low ranking police. You're a bounty hunter, i'm assuming by your sigs. Comming into liberty and engaging a cruiser may be stepping out of your jurisdiction, unless of course someone puts a bounty on that cap ship. ^_^ Further, you don't have to wait for the cap ship to receive a bounty, go in and sell one to someone who just got blasted. Further, offer to do it on the cheap, since the bastard is being a general nusance. Now you have a fully 'In Character' or IC as we call it where I am from, reason to perforate his hull. And yes, I realize you said as much in your post, however, it is a good example which leads me to:
+Swift: Why do the admins have to get involved? I mean yeah sure, his RP sucks, and he's ruining everyone's fun that he sets his sights on, but he still is IC. Maybe not well, but he is. All of his actions are having real effects, they are affecting the 'Universe'. Do something about it. Does he belong to a faction you are allied to? Find an IC reason to take him down. Yeah sure, you start a war. Big deal. War is where I have often found the best Rp.
Don't want to start a war? Put a bounty on him and send Athenian after him. He'll never know you were really responsible. (Fragging a cruiser, and sending his escape pod plumetting into the nearest asteroid's atmospher? = The cost of a few novas, and half your bats and bots. Hiring someone to do it for you, in order to prevent war? = Priceless) Maybe your faction has rules against engaging independants? Break the rules. Sure, you might get a scolding, or even kicked out, but that doesn't make it bad roleplay. Rules were made to be broken, and they are broken all the time. Have fun with it, and enjoy it.
+Cheshire: And that's why it's okay for factions in the game to make and enforce rules, because it's all part of roleplay. Everybody has to not 1. fight 2. smoke and 3. drink or the administrators of the playground will remove you. But if you go and take the gang of bullies toys, well, the administrators aren't going to do anything, because it's not part of the rules. They're not going to enforce the gang of bullies rules. That's the bully's job, and if they can't enforce those rules, well, they don't have any business making them in the first place.
But with the word enforce, the root word is 'Force'. If the best show of force you can give is ":rtfm: we posted the rules on the forums here! you have to abide by them." You're not going to get very far with an indie. You'll have to put your blaster where your mouth is.
The main point I want to leave with all is, though there may not be an RP engagement message, it is not necessarily Out of Character, or OOC, (Where I come from.) For example, if someone killed my brother, i'm not going to stand 2 kilomiters away from him and shout, "My name is Antonio Montoya! You killed my brother, now I will kill you. Prepare to Die!" I'm going to walk up behind him, when he's not looking, put a knife in his back, and slowly twist it while telling him, "This is for my brother," very quietly, in his ear.
Surprise is a very important tactic, especially when your intention is to kill your quarry. Sometimes, verbal deliberation isn't even necessary. My trade character, for example, when he drops out of a trade lane, isn't going to stop. He'd engine kill, thrust up to max speed, and begin firing at the pirates who are after him, without pause or word. This, however is because he comes from a heavy military background, and truely feels that he would be victorious. His entire life has been engrained with "Fight to the death! Never give in!" This is just 1 trade ship, of his X number of ships, the rest of which are combat oriented. Further, he has fought along side, as well as against many pirates, and knows that many would just as soon kill him after they get what they want as let him go.
Then again, he might stop his ship, to wait for the pirate to get in range and come to a halt, then when they least expect it, then go for the cheap shot, and try to blast them while they are stationary. This wouldn't work at all, however, if he were required to say, "I'm going to shoot you now." That's not to say that he would never meet ransom for a pirate. If he's one tradelane away from his destination, he probably will pay up, so he doesn't have to go back to where he started.
So the question of whether "PvP without RP" is far to situational, in my opinion, to make a "Rule" that will likely not often be enforce by administrators, even if it is an "Official Rule."
Quote:The bit you quoted about being new to Discovery was aimed at factions that arrived here wholescale and expected to be held in awe because they were the elite on some PvP server elsewhere. They could ruin the game for others, and themselves, with alarming frequency.
Then the post is out dated and in need of pruning, or at least maybe a little rewording. Because it's a sticky, players still apply this viewpoint to all new players, regardless of their past experience. (emphasis on those with less experience here.) Were it a new thread, that were not stickied, it would not be so much of an issue. I feel that it presents the wrong attitude of the forums and of the server, and that attitude is contageous.
' Wrote:I will answer to this in the order you placed your paragraphs:
1. I've been here even longer than you. I don't care if you're a mod or a simple member; saying that disgraces you, this community, and its members. Seniority may have its benefits, but it doesn't give you the right to be an ***hole.
He wasn't being an *******, it was a joke and a play on the words that I used. The comment was directed at me, and I am not offended. (I suggest you not piss of the mods. ^_-)
Quote:6. I don't quite understand this statement. You seem to contradict yourself. I think you meant to say that:
"Not even the most unimaginative RP (which even a incredibly brilliant RPer such as myself can be guilty of) can allow you to do so in-game."
If that is so, I disagree. If someone is making this game unplayable for you, something should be done. Albeit this something should involve contacting an admin first, not taking it into your own hands.
You completely misunderstood him. What he was saying is that it doesn't take much effort to figure out a way to do something about an *******, like the ones we are talking about, in an IC roleplay fashion, and that you should absolutely try to do something about it ICly before you even think about going to an admin about it.
