Terrorist ID: Is it even needed?

[sovereign]

See, this is what AJ refers to. Certain people, feel they are better than others, period.

Better than others? Yes, I'll admit that I think I'm better than some people. Cheaters, for example. I'll not go into where it ends, but I am quite aware I am not perfect. For the most part I try not to think about it. I act based on what I see before me- even though I dropped that comment I still said I would respond to any points brought up regardless of who they came from, be it an admin or a newbie with two posts to his name.

However, as there is concern about this thread derailing, I will not go into that either.

My grind with these factions? I was blown up by a Keeper who spit out 2 lines of ***XXX*** of which I didn't have a chance to fully read before it killed me. They were presets it seemed. I wasn't even on a trade ship. I was in the middle of an on going one hour plus RP session with an indie LPI.

As I'm not a Keeper, I can't speak for them, but I would think most poorly if you brought it to their attention and they shrugged it off.

I haven't ran into a Das Wilde nor a Phantom so I cannot comment on them with any merit.

Thank you for not lumping them into bad experiences not related to them. Contrary to most conspiracy theories, the playerbases behind the Keepers, Phantoms, Das Wilde, and Aoi Iseijin are quite different with only a handful of overlaps. There is far more of a crossover between the GRN and Aoi Iseijin than between Aoi Iseijin and Das Wilde, for example.

Now, I only said what I said because it isn't just me experienceing this. Many many people on this server complain about them. I've seen people on Skype say when they see Phantoms incoming they accept they are dead, even if they RP with the Phantoms. Whats the point of RP'n with a group that is always going to kill you when you encounter them? They get to have their fun at your expense every time and when you say "Hey guys can you RP with me?" All we get from the members of these factions is "Quit whining its our RP and we aren't breaking any rules."

Whenever I see someone on skype mention a bad experience related to Iseijin or Das Wilde (or any faction I'm in, really), I usually prod them until they go out with it and tell me what happened. Then, I evaluate if it was just "wrong place, wrong time" or if there was a problem on my end, in which case I go yell at the offender or otherwise fix whatever caused the problem. Usually people would have just stewed in their misery or put up generic flames about it rather than provide any useful feedback for making it not happen again- seriously, the feedback threads are there for a reason. If you see someone on skype complaining about an encounter, tell them to take it to the feedback thread. I, for one, appreciate knowing when I'm doing something that makes others unhappy.

Though I'm not a Phantom, I may be able to offer some useful advice. Starting off with "I want to shoot you" usually prompts them to shoot you. Factions that the Phantoms are directly antagonist to (house militaries, Junkers, etc) is also very likely to mean you get shot, with lengthy RP being unlikely since 90% of the time you're calling for backup. Though if you catch them at long range, they've been known to be chattier since they aren't under threat of impending "acceptable target" ganking. Playing a character they aren't directly antagonist too (most pirates), not being hostile, and not being prey, and you can have a jolly good time. My Hogosha had a good chat with Djinn about the various aspects of killing people when we were both somewhat expecting it to end in bloodshed at first. I was even in a transport. What I did was causally converse as though nothing was wrong while yet acknowledging who I was dealing with- I did not act as though I was not aware of their power (thus prompting a demonstration), but rather showed a hint of admiration. I did not make overtures that I was calling for backup, and the Hogosha are not directly hostile to the Phantoms.

After all, there's only so much talk you're going to get if your Liberty cruiser gets popped out of a lane by an RM patrol. You're hostile, it pretty much comes down to "drop engagement notice and get this over with before backup arrives", which is exactly what happens when an enemy of the Phantoms gets popped out of a lane by them or jumps right on top of them.

The Keeper that grinded me was Tenacity from what I can find on the forums, and while I find him to be a good person; he thinks the Phantoms/Keepers/Wilde are some sort of rule enforcing police on the server. Ensuring that all those silent power traders learn to RP. Kinda makes the rest of us mad when these factions are allowed by the server rules to ignore the rules.

If you see a terrorist ignore the rules, report them. I will not stand for others besmirching the trust placed in the holders of terrorist-class IDs. RP before engagement is still necessary, just as the four hour rule still applies to terrorists like it does everyone else. If by "ignore the rules" you mean "shoot transports without issuing a demand", that's an entirely different story.

How does this tie in to the Terrorist ID?

As Tena already agreed with, you should be able to predict the behavoir of a pirate. You shouldn't be able to predict the behavoir of a terrorist? Of which Keepers/Phantoms/Wilde fall into. Yet you can predict their behavoir. You can predict you are most likely dead. In my experince that is the case with the Keepers, as I didn't have a chance to even respond or fully read what the Keeper said. Was I contacted after I died with any kind of info as to why I was killed? No. The Keeper simply left the system.

As I said before, I hope you took that too a feedback thread or otherwise let them know what you felt in a manner other than trial-by-forum. Leaders can't police their own unless they know what their own are doing wrong, after all.

I don't want any of these factions to be removed nor do I want the Terrorist ID removed. I wan them to actually RP with the rest of us instead of simply killing us because the server rules have been set up in a way to allow them to. Nevermind the fact that they are closed factions of which are ran by admins, ex-admins, or friends of admins. All of which have a say in the server rules. Conspiracy? No. Simply fact of human nature.

Friends of admins... oh, that would make things easier, wouldn't it. If that were true, it would be unthinkable that Das Wilde would get an SRP denied, wouldn't it?

"a say in the server rules" is even funnier. The admins are rather good at keeping their adminship and their friendships distinct. They unban people they don't want to see playing, they sanction each other when someone messes up. Shall I show you when Virus fined Caylith her guns because she used cruise to catch up back in 4.84?

I'll continue to say it as many times as it takes. Everyone has to RP, though when you are jumped by someone hostile to you nobody composes a novel. The LN and RM will chat with each other before they get into range, but if one pops through a gate it's usually "all wings open fire, get him before he gets help!". Same deal for terrorists and their dedicated enemies. When you aren't holding a giant hammer over their heads they get a lot more talkative. Getting someone to have a full conversation while you're holding the potential to massacre them unless they kill you now should be considered a blessing, rather than a requirement.

^ That is terrorism. Thing is, do you people even bother letting the 'innocent' traders know why you are killing them? Do you bother taking into account that you just ruined their fun to get your fun? I'd be fine if I was one of those innocent traders, but if no one explained it to me I'd be pissed. We shouldn't have to come to the forums with screens saying, "WTF!" in order to understand what happened. You, as the person granted extra freedoms because you are better at RP then us should explain it to us so we understand it.

I certainly did. I told the whole system that people were dying because the BAF refused to negotiate, if the trader didn't just hit "respawn" immediately they would usually catch it. Not to mention that I didn't always succeed in killing the traders, in which case I would tell them why they were attacked and the conditions under which they would be safe again. The traders did have a "way out", as it were- get the BAF to negotiate. A bit more difficult than 2 mil tax, but it was there. We wanted something, and were using innocent casualties to get it. Their deaths helped us get what we wanted, and if they came up with something more useful that helped us get what we wanted then they usually were spared to go do it. I still do that. Today, I spared a luxury liner because they surrendered some of their passengers and agreed to have the survivors spread tales of horror in exchange for their lives. 2000 people spreading the word does a lot better than 2000 more names on a casualty list. It was excellent fun, too.



McNeo has an excellent point, too. PvP is easy to get, and shooting transports doesn't exactly satisfy blood lust. If someone wants a Terrorist ID to satisfy their need for PvP, they have no idea what the ID actually lets them do.



As a point of honor, you may have noticed that I responded to all of your points in a manner independent of who you are. Like I said, I take all concerns seriously, be they from an admin or a newbie with two posts to their name. Regardless of whether or not I feel like I am "better" than you, you gave me things I could address- so I did.

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