Faction right to lie on Wiki

[chovynz]

Hang on Hang on Hang on.

Everybody calm down. That means you too EisenSeele.

There is a lot of history about these issues. You cannot just jump in like that without stepping on alot of peoples toes. It is NOT as easily solved as you think it is. I've been working on this and many other similar issues for a long time.

Maybe the mindset you are coming up against came from me in the first place. For a long time I WAS the Wiki guy. Hardly anyone else was contributing. I set many of the precedents, templates and usage instructions. Then a group formed around me, and we carried on.

At that stage, I had no choice but to pick and choose what to do, since I had loads of time, but no wiki skill. I got little direction from Igiss. When I did what Igiss wanted I got yelled at by members of the community, much like what you are doing now. When I did what members of the community wanted, I got yelled at by factions. When I did what factions wanted, I got yelled at by "independents". Sound familiar?

So I made some decisions, based on what I thought was best at the time. These mindsets have been around a long time, and you can't just jump the gun like you are doing.

Work alongside the existing editors. You are a new person, and while you are a valued member of the wiki team you are not the one making all the decisions. Nor do you seem to be aware of the background issues as to WHY things are, as they are now. There are lots of things to consider. If you want to change something, you must first study, and become that something and THEN change it from the inside out. If you bang it with a hammer, as you are doing, you'll not only break something, but you might also hurt others in the process.

One thing I have tried to instill is an inclusion policy. We need more wiki editors, no two ways about it.
However, there are also instances where delicacy is need in the dissemination of information. In these cases, use tact, and long-term goals to get your way, rather than blasting a problem along with the solution. Use persuasion instead of emotional anger. If logic is too hard for others to take, then use appeals to emotions. Appeals based on fact are not fallacy, and can work wonders in getting your own way.

Just telling someone they are wrong never works.

If I'm being too general let me know. I'll be far more direct if you need me to be. You may not like the answers but it might be more plain.

As far as this particular issue goes, I've LONG had it a policy that factions are responsible for their own pages. This goes especially for SPECIFIC factions.

I'll try to break down the thinking that is in use here.

• The wiki IS primarily for THIS server. Igiss/A&L guy owns the whole freaking lot. You can't argue with that. Whoever owns the hardware owns the stuff. They might rent server space, but they pay the bills. That's how life goes. They have final say, but they are also human and fallible. They are also reasonable people and can be persuaded away from their initial viewpoint, if given enough time to think, and respect to hold their own opinion.
  
• In saying that, it is useful to have SOME information for every community that uses the Discovery Mod. Igiss ALSO agrees with that. However, to facility that, we need to move slowly.
  
• Information can be split into separate categories. There is common knowledge. There is factional knowledge, and there is personal knowledge. There is also "secret" knowledge you are supposed to "Discover". For instance, Igiss has said that he wants people to "Discover" things. My wiki team and I fought long and hard to gain the spoiler tag facility SO that we could put things on the wiki that were considered "not-common" knowledge, but were certainly useful for members of factions. The premise being to build UP the wiki to a point where it does indeed fulfill the first paragraph and it's intention of being useful to ALL members of THIS SERVER of Disco.
  
• The problem arises when you have differing Lore for each faction for different servers. For instance : If we put on the LPI page that Chief Matt Myers (Zapp) is the Head of LPI, and that he has to be obeyed by faction members AND independent players alike (for cohesion in roleplay, otherwise there is chaos, in a police force that is NEVER chaotic like that. Pirate groups, sometimes ; police force, no,) then the Berlin Discovery community want the Lore to state that Marilyn Monroe on their server is the Commandant of the LPI, then which server gets prime position to dictate to the others what is going on? Do all servers have to play by THIS servers Lore that there is Matt Myers, and only ever Matt Myers as Chief of LPI? No. That's preposterous.
  
• It's also preposterous to have a disambiguation page for every server's LPI force, and so on, * amount of factions * amount of servers * times amount of factional splits. It's a ridiculus amount of work, and SOMEBODY has to keep it updated. Much of the information cannot be written up by a bot from the inis. That's the easy info. Anyone with half a brain and two eyes can grab stuff from ini files.
  
• It's also a question of WHO is going to keep these things updated. Are you going to continue keeping all things "secret" updated? What happens when you get tired of that game and want to play something else? Are you going to fulfil the obligation you have now created for yourself, in sticking around to continually update those "secret" things? Or are you going to (as has been demonstrated in the past on many other games and wikis, and individual pages and factions WITHIN this wiki alone... that you will simple go "enough!" and walk away?) It's VERY VERY likely the latter. In fact I would almost bet on it. That's a heavy burden to wear my friend. It's much better to ask people to be responsible for themselves, and if they choose not to update, or to hide information, then that is up to them.
  

What you ask for is full disclosure. Even Igiss doesn't do that. It's impractical, and not worth anything. Every Dev agrees to a NDA when they sign up, because of the many fights and arguments that DO appear, when things are disclosed that people do not like. Just look at the Newly released 4.86 info thread.

It's much better to have SOME information that is useful to the majority, than to be squabbling over a LITTLE bit of information, than no-one really cares about. Those involved have asked it to remain "secret" information, to facilitate IN GAME roleplay by asking existing members, and to help people who are actually interested. We should be respecting that, rather than over-riding them, because of a full-disclosure policy that exists only in your own mind.

So again, I ask you to kindly drop the subject, and find something more useful to do on the wiki. We can continue to "debate" this until the cows come home, but I can tell you in full experiential authority, that I've been there and done that. It's not worth the grief that you'll put yourself through if you continue on this track.

Ultimately the choice is yours, but I urge you not to push and shove the way you are doing. Come alongside the existing editors and ask them what they would like to be done, to use your passion for accuracy and detail in a way that benefits us all, not just some imagined slight on ambiguous "unknown players rights".

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Seek fun and you shall find it. Seek stuff to Q_Q about and you'll find that, too. I choose to have fun.