Why do (or don't) you fly a Zoner? Serious question.

[Ash]

So tell me. How come they were able to rise to a position as strong as that in two decades that took all four houses 800 years to do so?

Not remotely as strong. But when nobody is making your capitals explode, you get to keep them. Let's say that there are 10 zoner capital ships around inrp. Let's say that there are 100 liberty capships around inrp. But, while the zoners only ever produced 10 and managed to keep them due to the neutrality, liberty had probably produced hundreds more, losing many in the various conflicts such as the rheinland liberty war, others dealing with the random ranseur that decided to pop in NY. So historically, liberty might have had 500 capships, just that 400 of them exploded during conflicts which boring peaceful inrp zoner capital ships rarely (supposed to) have, therefore zoners aren't nearly possibly to the level of any house military, and rightly so.

On the topic of why zoner's supposed colony ships are more powerful than house battleships, but when you think about it, the house capship thing is pretty much an industry, and militaries not only have to produce the most devastating warships, they also have to produce them as efficiently as possible and sometimes that means cutting down on the raw firepower or survivability (which would be made up for by the much superior military training) in order to drastically lower the cost of their warships. Meanwhile, Zoner capitals weren't built to take part in a military conflict, but rather to survive, and therefore more resources might have been spared for each capital, because firepower is a diplomacy that all lesser armed threats would respect. At the same time, the houses know that Zoners aren't a threat because they simply do not have the training nor the industry to attack the houses, so suppose the aforementioned 10 zoner capships banded together to attack liberty, liberty would respond with their own 100 capships, and instantly crank out 50 more because they have such efficient warship factories, and ultimately due to liberty navy's military training they may not even lose a single warship in the hypothetical zoner invasion.

As a zoner trader a while back, I have encountered both pirates that accepted zoner neutrality and allowed zoners (and junkers) to pass freely, as well as pirates who gave supposed discounts to zoners, as well as pirates who didn't give a crap who you were. Personally I have never complained much about it, because neutrality isn't the same as being allied, and doesn't exempt anyone from piracy. However, it seems that people who hate zoner players hate them because they whine when they get pirated, but why can't they whine? They're getting pirated, whining is a pretty reasonable reaction! And if these whining zoners report you on the forums, has any of them actually successfully caused a sanction? If so, then you probably did more than breach Zoner neutrality.

That's a very well constructed story to support the status quo. But you're missing one very big thing. How the hell did Zoners find the money to build a war fleet. I don't think you can explain a faction that was supposed to have no more than a few wings of fighters per Freeport suddenly being able to fund the projects to develop and manufacture an entire line of capitals. Not only that, but of their own design. It's always more expensive to make it yourself. It's like they skipped the corsair's stage of borrowing caps and ascending and got straight to flying shiny state of the art cruisers. It doesn't add up.

They may have a niche market operation in the omicrons. But there's no way that could earn them enough money to do all that, settle a planet and build an additional 15 bases in the mean time.

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[Faxe]

How the hell did Zoners find the money to build a war fleet.

They found it in space?

They could have got the raw materials from mining.

They could have got the rest from trading.

They could have brought the money with them from when before they were zoners, from what ever they were before they decided to be zoners.

Heck they could even be ex-pirates who decided to give up piracy and become zoners.

You can apply your "you cant have that cause realism" to each and every faction in Sirius. Its totally stupid. Let players play. Jesus.

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[HassLHoFF™]

Well you simply can't win a war inRP when you do not have the ressources and the capacity...there isn't a realism fetish needed. just cause you have a big member roster or something, does not mean you win a war inRP.

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[Faxe]

Well you simply can't win a war inRP when you do not have the ressources and the capacity...there isn't a realism fetish needed. just cause you have a big member roster or something, does not mean you win a war inRP.

You know something?

Maybe if being active and playing and trading and mining and having a large member roster and trying to increase it by collaborating with many people actually gave you a reward, most of the server problems concerning inter-player relations and numbers would be solved in a flash.

Instead, all of that just gets you punished and hassled and stigmatized with words like "power-trader", "ganker", "cap whore" and a gang of know-all super-RPer (in their own minds) vets who cant stand the fact that you're having fun and have acquired more stuff than them will jump on you and try to gain a sense of superiority by criticizing everything you do, doing their best to make you leave either because they successfully mobbed you away or bored you away by making you conform to their boring ways.

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[Thyrzul]

How the hell did Zoners find the money to build a war fleet.

They found it in space?

They could have got the raw materials from mining.

They could have got the rest from trading.

They could have brought the money with them from when before they were zoners, from what ever they were before they decided to be zoners.

Heck they could even be ex-pirates who decided to give up piracy and become zoners.

You can apply your "you cant have that cause realism" to each and every faction in Sirius. Its totally stupid. Let players play. Jesus.

Could, could, could, but why would? To ruin their reputation? You know, K, you need a lot else than ability for something to be done.

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[Sath]

I like the Zoner whale, more than any other 5k'er.

It is sleek, easy to navigate, and moves like a goddess. But unfortunately, no good trade routes or anything to put good use to it.

So, I used to play a Zoner, only for the looks of the whale, and sometimes, for Connecticut pews with the Aquillon and the Nephilim.

used to

Until there is something productive I can do with the whale, no more Zoners in game, other than for OORP purposes.

[Faxe]

Could, could, could, but why would? To ruin their reputation? You know, K, you need a lot else than ability for something to be done.

And so spoke Thyrsul, master of knowing what everyone should be wanting to do.

I dunno man, maybe they build combat ships because they dont like being killed by nomads, or being pushed around, or robbed by the other factions around them.

Oh sorry... zoners love being killed, pushed around, and robbed.

Before you'll now start telling me about diplomacy, think about what "big stick diplomacy" could mean, why carrying a really big stick can make your diplomacy much more effective, and why not having a stick at all is not going to make you a very successful diplomat.

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[Arioch]

OYE! The past couple pages have been full of e-peen waving and nothing constructive. It turned from "Why I fly them" to "Why you shouldn't fly them/why it doesn't make sense." Stop it otherwise people will be taking vacations and this thread lost to the depths...

*Hic*

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[Thyrzul]

Before you'll now start telling me about diplomacy, think about what "big stick diplomacy" could mean, why carrying a really big stick can make your diplomacy much more effective, and why not having a stick at all is not going to make you a very successful diplomat.

Big stick diplomacy is the luxury of big players. What makes you think Zoners could develop to the level of Houses in 20 years when it took those centuries to reach said level? What makes you think Houses would silently allow that? What makes you think they wouldn't know about that?

On topic: Freighter trading ftw!

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[Faxe]

Big stick diplomacy is the luxury of big players.

The point that you intentionally missed and tried to cover with an empty phase was that having a stick to hit people with can be an important asset during diplomatic negotiations.

What makes you think Zoners could develop to the level of Houses in 20 years when it took those centuries to reach said level? What makes you think Houses would silently allow that? What makes you think they wouldn't know about that?

On topic: Freighter trading ftw!