Should independents have it harder?

[Markus_Janus]

So just to clear this up.
Are we saying that Outcasts can kill you as long as you are not allied with them for carrying cardamine, Corsairs can kill you as long as you are not allied if you are carrying artifacts, but corps can not put a bounty on you for carrying a commodity they claim as theirs?
A corp member can put a bounty on you for talking to him, looking at him funny, traveling in the same space as him or just because he does not like your name... but he can't put a bounty on you for carrying a commodity his faction claims ownership of?

So in essence by saying no to this we are really going to have to come up with new rules to limit how corporate factions can hire mercs and BHs.
I'm all for not limiting indy traders but are we to limit the corporate factions instead.
If they choose to claim ownership of a commodity then they will have to deal with the in RP consequences of that decision.

Tell me if the Liberty Navy made Neon contraband inside Liberty, would that be against the rules?
What if they did it at the request of Universal Shipping?
What if Universal Shipping hired the mercs themselves, is that when it becomes against the rules?

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Samura Omotai Zaibatsu.

[Shryke]

For those that say this is Freelancer not Corp/Cap/Whatever lancer, that's an washed up argument. Freelancer is far from the game good people at Discovery have made it to be. It has it's own laws, it's own customs already, hell it has Coalition, new ships, new models, new physics, missiles, everything. Its far from Microsoft's Freelancer. If your argument is that you want to be FREE as Trent was in his game, then you're forgetting that in order for him to be a freelancer society had to exist.

No, its NOT a washed up argument. Discovery is still Discovery Freelancer and not it's own game. If it was its own game, there wouldn't be Liberty, Corsairs, etc. What you want to do is restrict a large portion of the gaming population. And of course you will see less traders if you restrict independent traders as the vast majority traders don't belong to an official corporation. If you want to make incentives to get people into trading factions, make incentives, don't restrict people that prefer to be their own boss. People not in factions and corporations are already the most restricted group of people in the game. Don't make it even worse.

I have a legitimate trader and a smuggler. If your idea goes through, I will never log on to my trader again because signing contracts and this and that takes out the fun of it, and it's already the most boring character I have.

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[Exsiled_one]

let me ask you something? do you even trade in gate / lane parts?
did you even do your homework?
do you even know how many commodities are exclusive. I think that Ageira's one is the most exclusive legal commodity. Something like planetform's gaian wildlife or corsair's artifacts.

if you're trading rest of them, you dont even have to concern this.
Now honestly, do you even trade in gate / lane parts?

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<span style="color:#33CC00">I AM GIVING AWAY MONEY TO CREATIVE MINDS*</span>

[Corsair]

My Orbital Spa is an indie, yet I fly a BIG BAD 160 MILL LUX LINAR. And make probably 15 millions in profit for one run that takes me through several high-risk systems to be worthwhile.

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[Exsiled_one]

your orbital spa is orbital spa man.

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<span style="color:#33CC00">I AM GIVING AWAY MONEY TO CREATIVE MINDS*</span>

[GHOSTbielars]

but thats ridiculous to say that you cant trade gate lane parts. cmon they are a manufacturing company. they hire people to distribute them. now ageira can has their own transports that take them to certain distribution centers, but then someone else transports it to the next place it has to go. each person along the way makes a fraction of the pie by for delivering it, but ageira makes the base majority bc they made the parts.

if you restricted it, i mean that would just be ridiculous. in todays market, any product you buy has been sold about 4 times. different people assume ownership as it gets closer and closer to the final owner.

manufacturer->distributors->wholesalers->sellers->consumers

all the indie traders are doing, are being like the independent truckers we have on the road today. they work for themselves, but will haul things for companies. thats perfect there is nothing wrong with that. the corporate traders in disco are the truckers that work for only one company and haul only their stuff.

now if you wanted to stop having so many just Completely independent traders you could make a new faction for delivery service. unlike ageira they dont make certain parts, but they haul the stuff for ageira or other manufacturers. like a UPS kind of company or even just a trader union where they work together. that way they can still trade anything anywhere reasonable, but still have a base grounding for RP purposes and will encourage teamwork.

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OHSH it's Igiss everyone look busy.

[Elsdragon]

DOsent mean they will join. Just buff corps. seems better than say..... NO U!

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No longer a slave to the man!

[Ackarion]

I would like to bring an example to one of my characters. This sole source corporate license issue would actually effect my rp and my character in a negative way and cause me great frustration.

My char is a (Independant) ALG ID'd Heavy Mover. Part of my rp is in my hold; I have plutonium and toxic waste. I use engines to replicate for my engine. MOX is used for my fuel and its consumption, Crew and Oxygen.

Now. Lets say the Plutonium belongs to a Kusari company, Engines belong to another company, Toxic waste belongs to ALG. MOX belong to BMM. Now my rp load out violates 3 to 4 licensing requirements and therefore when I travel to system to system: I have x companies telling me I cant have said cargo. I have x police saying I cant have x cargo. I have x pirates telling me I cant have x cargo. I will be shot at, hastled, and eventually killed because I decided to have a rp load out. In additoin one or two companies will open a bounty due to me carrying there items in my hold. For what, because I am using them for rp and to make some money too. This is what will happen.

Now the topic of bounties and the effect they have. Lets say, I have gotten tired of ones rp or just dont like the way things are being played out. What is there to stop a company from putting a 1 billion bounty on OPG. Putting 3mill for fighters, 5 mill on gbs, and 8mill on cap ships. Now one billion, is on the pot. At this rate OPG would be hunted on the server for 6months, what a negative effect. Just because you all doing your rp. I mean this can be done. (I am not making this to be a threat) I am mearly making a point on the ramifications of a company with large pockets. You have a corporation with teams of people putting money in a pot, brow beating other new players, independent players, and corporate players. Thats the other issue, some corporations will have more pull and wealth than others so pressures would be applied with bounties and trade agreements and licensing. Wow, can you say mob associated teamsters or unions.

Organized strongarming is what i call it.

These are another few points why I am very much against these values and ideas.

(I do want to say, my points are not to indicate that these are one's intentions, just that these are the remifications of such desicions.)

[Markus_Janus]

I would like to bring an example to one of my characters. This sole source corporate license issue would actually effect my rp and my character in a negative way and cause me great frustration.

My char is a (Independant) ALG ID'd Heavy Mover. Part of my rp is in my hold; I have plutonium and toxic waste. I use engines to replicate for my engine. MOX is used for my fuel and its consumption, Crew and Oxygen.

Now. Lets say the Plutonium belongs to a Kusari company, Engines belong to another company, Toxic waste belongs to ALG. MOX belong to BMM. Now my rp load out violates 3 to 4 licensing requirements and therefore when I travel to system to system: I have x companies telling me I cant have said cargo. I have x police saying I cant have x cargo. I have x pirates telling me I cant have x cargo. I will be shot at, hastled, and eventually killed because I decided to have a rp load out. In additoin one or two companies will open a bounty due to me carrying there items in my hold. For what, because I am using them for rp and to make some money too. This is what will happen.

Well the only commodity I can see there that anyone has even a remote chance of claiming is Plutonium and the GMG has said they are not interested in doing such and would like as many people to carry it as possible.
The pirates are just something you already have to deal with and all they can do is take your money, your cargo or your life... just like they do now.
Police already say you can not have x cargo and some navies already charge licensing fees for certain cargo, is it wrong for them to do that?
I would not even think anyone is going to waste money on a bounty over 20- 50 units you have in your hold for RP purposes.
Again think of the RP consequences, A company that sells to no one goes out of business very quickly.

Now the topic of bounties and the effect they have. Lets say, I have gotten tired of ones rp or just dont like the way things are being played out. What is there to stop a company from putting a 1 billion bounty on OPG. Putting 3mill for fighters, 5 mill on gbs, and 8mill on cap ships. Now one billion, is on the pot. At this rate OPG would be hunted on the server for 6months, what a negative effect. Just because you all doing your rp. I mean this can be done. (I am not making this to be a threat) I am mearly making a point on the ramifications of a company with large pockets. You have a corporation with teams of people putting money in a pot, brow beating other new players, independent players, and corporate players. Thats the other issue, some corporations will have more pull and wealth than others so pressures would be applied with bounties and trade agreements and licensing. Wow, can you say mob associated teamsters or unions.

Organized strongarming is what i call it.

These are another few points why I am very much against these values and ideas.

(I do want to say, my points are not to indicate that these are one's intentions, just that these are the remifications of such desicions.)

This is exactly what is able to happen now,anyone can put a bounty on anyone for any reason.
What would stop it is in game RP repercussions, maybe the house government will crack down on them for organizing having traders vessels destroyed, maybe they will have to deal with greater pirate populations since there are less traders now.
Maybe another corporation will start targeting the one with the restricted cargo for higher premiums for letting them carry their cargo.
Strong arm tactics is exactly what you see from every faction out in space at the moment.
The pilots of those vessels are not just there to offer you well wishes.
We should stop thinking of Trader factions just being there to feed the other factions, they have a life of their own too.
They have varying goals and varying modes of operation and it would be a shame to say to them that they should just shut up and give the pirates, mercs and navy something to do when they are bored.


Something that should be made clear is that no one is pushing for it to be made a rule, or put in their ID or even force others to defend for them.
This is something a faction would have to take the initiative for and maintain it with its own money or man power.
And I assure you from where I am sitting there would be more consequence than gain if corporations did try this move.;)

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Samura Omotai Zaibatsu.

[Xareck]

Merc/Freelancer traders are sort of oorp to me.

I'd just like to point out that Trent was an independent trader, or at least, that's what's insinuated.

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