Admin Notice: Changes to server rule 4.1 and 4.3

[JorgeRyan]

With the "You must not carry cargo while leaving the system" bit, does that include RP cargo? Whether or not it was actual pvp death or docking death

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Feedback and comm bumping here

[Panzer]

Here's a thought: 2 hour, automatic tempbans following PvPdeath.

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[Daynox]

Traders getting away from a pirate and successfully docking, only for it to count as a pvp death sucks...

I am not a silent trader, even though i do tend to mind my own business while trading, my ships are mostly filled with RP commodities.. everything a full crew would need for long hauls. So.. nine times out of ten if i do encounter a pirate, he makes a demand and i will pay it. Thanx for comming out. There have been times when i do not comply with said demends, take some hits but in the end i escape and make it to dock... why should that count as a pvp death... i count that as a WIN!

One instance was in Kepler i believe a while back... i made a run for it, pirate chased me for 2 systems but in the end i managed to dock. He even congratulated me on the chase and me docking (getting away) and he then left the system.....

I think if the Trader makes it to dock... the pirate then has to leave that trader alone for 2 hours maybe?....Trader got away.

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[Jayce]

>pirate has to not pirate the trader if he gets away

Good meme.

If you get away from me once, I assure you, the demand will be twice as hefty next time.

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[Mushy]

Unfortunately, it seems that the trader inclusion in the 'dock and you're dead' rule somewhat harms interaction. People seem to be three times more paranoid because of it. Basically, as long as the guy you want to roleplay with is close to a station, it doesn't matter if your intentions aren't hostile, all it takes is that you're red to them on their scanners and they instantly dock with minimal or no RP.

Kind of sad, since I like playing hostile factions that are more about the RP and not about the pews, and this change sort of hurts. Yes, powertraders got a big downside to deal with now, which is sort of nice in its own way, but this downside seems to have backfired and reduces the amount of RP encounters on an already lowly populated server to a minimum, because naturally, people see red and always assume the worst.

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[Toris (Old Account)]

@Mushy With all respect, but screw these powertraders early in the morning. What annoys me the most is bunch of traders that refuse to RP and try to F2/F3 with the closest tradelane/base. This is what annoys me the most as a pirate, because - contrary to the popular trend - I am not fulfilled seeing a trader turned into blue. Turning trader into blue, for me, is not any reward. It is wasted time and loss of potential income which could be earned if outcome was different.

P.S. It comes from the fact I try my best to have semi-closed economy for my unlawful chars. It is next to impossible with traders turned into blue, hence my annoyance.

[Felipe]

Well, with all respect, i was one of those powertraders, and faced lots of different pirates: those willing RP, those wanting blue, those just in need of money, those just logged to rekt me specificly. Point is: if im in a trader, can evade a pirate docking, by actual rule i just log another trader other side of sirius, and keep trading. Maybe could be different, and really, with ppl around doing all kind of "pirating", is fair blame traders that prefer using their hands trying escape instead typing w veterans who keep shooting em WHILE typing? You never know what other player will do, so mostly, a dog bited by a snake, run from even a rope....

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[TheSK]

Well, with all respect, i was one of those powertraders, and faced lots of different pirates: those willing RP, those wanting blue, those just in need of money, those just logged to rekt me specificly. Point is: if im in a trader, can evade a pirate docking, by actual rule i just log another trader other side of sirius, and keep trading. Maybe could be different, and really, with ppl around doing all kind of "pirating", is fair blame traders that prefer using their hands trying escape instead typing w veterans who keep shooting em WHILE typing? You never know what other player will do, so mostly, a dog bited by a snake, run from even a rope....

Exactly this.

[Jack_Henderson]

Unfortunately, it seems that the trader inclusion in the 'dock and you're dead' rule somewhat harms interaction. People seem to be three times more paranoid because of it. Basically, as long as the guy you want to roleplay with is close to a station, it doesn't matter if your intentions aren't hostile, all it takes is that you're red to them on their scanners and they instantly dock with minimal or no RP.

Kind of sad, since I like playing hostile factions that are more about the RP and not about the pews, and this change sort of hurts. Yes, powertraders got a big downside to deal with now, which is sort of nice in its own way, but this downside seems to have backfired and reduces the amount of RP encounters on an already lowly populated server to a minimum, because naturally, people see red and always assume the worst.

Of course, "docking" is the logical reaction of traders who are waiting at a lawful base if they see a red coming.

The red could theoretically make a demand (if he even has to) and shoot the transport before it can dock.
That would mean: he is pvp-dead and cannot continue his flight or participate in a group action any more.

So, yes. The new rule makes transports dock on sight whenever they see a red. Or wait docked, so they do not pose targets for a "shooting someone out" move.

I can't blame anybody for doing that under the new rules.

[Jack_Henderson]

Go ingame, gather evidence about issues if there are any and present them to us.

Spazzy told me to collect negative experience with the new rule. Here is another one (in addition to what Mushy described 2 posts above):

A single light bomber now attacks a 7 ship armored convoy (6 traders, 1 gunboat) 20 k from base with "drop all cargo" demand - clearly looking for a fight.

Of course he has zero chance to score a kill in the given situation.

He of course knows that he cannot be killed by the transports (too slow in chase, no CDs) by going evasive after snaccing a few shields to make sure he "rulewise attacked" most of them. Was pretty clear to see.



So... I have the strong suspicion that "killing anybody" this was never the intention. The real threat in such a situation that makes zero sense is: If one of the transports had docked, he would have been pvp-dead for 2 hours. As this was in Tau 23, this would have meant that all transports that dock would be locked out of any cooperative teamplay (e.g. a mining session) for 2 hours because of an attack that can only be described as senseless. Being locked out of T23 for 2 hours means you miss the complete action of a day because we never play longer as a team. It means minus one player who likes roleplay, who likes to be part of a team and to play with others on Disco.

=> The new rule encourages "troll" attacks with ships that transports cannot kill, even if those attackers cannot score a kill themselves. You just have to stay in range after the initial attack to "win" as the attacker. Once the transport has docked, he is out.

=> The new rule gets into the way of cooperative gameplay because it makes groups who have to coordinate (where people have to wait sometimes) easy target for such attacks and therefore harms group play.

=> Groups like that have to reduce the risk of having members shot out, and therefore are forced to log off vulnerable ships or dock on sight when red show. That kills interactions where there used to be interaction in the past.

=> Also it is unrealistic if lawful bases do not provide protection any more. In the past, you could talk to reds when you were close to the friendly base. There was roleplay. If they opened up on you, you docked and nothing happened rulewise. And that's what it should be again. Sitting at a friendly base should offer protection, not mean "you are dead" because someone managed to shoot you before you could dock.

If you want screens and chatlogs of the messy "can't dock!" "Don't dock, or pvp dead!", I can provide that.