RE: The sanction of the Hess/Bret Combined Forces BattleGroup

[Dashiell]

Break it up. This isn't a 'we hate you and you hate us' thread. It sets bad blood. Discuss the mattar at hand here and take insulting to skype if you must. These kinds of discussions are fuel to the fire that is the oorp hate currently governing some faction relations.

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[Madvillain]

touché

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[Death.RunningVerminator]

touché

Oh so that's how you spell it.

Damn.. :unsure:

[Vladimir]

again: Hessians ID not allows to fight with Sairs on BAF side. no matter common enemy or not. Hessians already have more allies than they need. again: I dont think BAF would welcome Hessians caps in Cambrige

It does, it just doesn't allow grouping, as we learned to know today. As for what you think about BAF, i think BAF thinks for itself.

As for allies, well, that's what you get when you have lore and reasonable diplo on your side.


And no madvillian, it's not about you being a corsair. It's more about hypocrisy.

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[varoshanin]

....Hessians and Bretonia have (again, as far as I know) no reason to hate each other. One is lawful in its house, one is unlawful in its house, ....

Hessians are allies with the Mollies, so they have a base to launch from.

And why you think that BAF dont have reason to shoot hessians? If they allies with Mollies there is a enough reason to pew them...

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[JayDee Kasane]

And why you think that BAF dont have reason to shoot hessians? If they allies with Mollies there is a enough reason to pew them...

Indeed. this thing about Hessians are not enemies to BAF are just redicilous. Hessians pirating Civilian and Corporate ships. BAF protecting them. Since when Hessians become BAF puppys?

It does, it just doesn't allow grouping, as we learned to know today. As for what you think about BAF, i think BAF thinks for itself.

As for allies, well, that's what you get when you have lore and reasonable diplo on your side.

Eh, wha? Kay lets make it simple. Hessian goals: Get rid of Corsairs from Omegas and overrun Rheinland Government. Only place Hessians can meet Bretonians is Omega 3 or maybe Cambrige. Not a most needed systems for Hessians and their goals. so all that only to pew Sairs and only that.

What is reasonable diplomacy in your eyes? Having common enemy to pew? Why do LN not allied with Order? They have common enemy - Nomads. so its not a reasonable diplomacy.

That thing about Bretonia thinks Hessians are legit is just a spit to Rheinland Government. BAF may think for themself, but Hessians are pirating in O3 and O3 are BAF ZOI. BAF like pirates?

And Im still waiting an answer about: ''But hey, those are sairs, what did you expect from people reporting that in the first place, and doing all the things they were doing in last years?''

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[Redon]

It would also be ooRP for Corsairs to ignore a whole fleet of enemy ships suddenly appearing in their own back yard, litterally. Sanction or not, the roleplay around it was as usual, some good, some bad. But i thank the admins for sending them to Lost, it truly created alot of fun for the corsairs, for once.

You should keep in mind that the Bret/Hess fleet being there was completely ooRP in the first place. That's like saying it's your character's logical action is to shoot down an enemy you just beat in PvP 5 minutes ago, while all he's doing is trying to leave the system.

The Corsairs lost something tangible and so did some of those that were sanctioned. I don't understand why anyone is crying foul over it.

Before anyone jumps to silly conclusions like this, you should try to rethink some things:

1. The punishment was completely out of proportion. Keep in mind that the sanction was not for destroying the Corsair base, it was for the bretonians and hessians allying by joining the same group. Believe it or not, the base would've been destroyed either way. Hence, you cannot compare the loss of Puerto del Infierno to the loss some of these sanctioned players had out in the Omicrons, possibly losing up to billions of credits for a little flaw in how they handled the RP side.

2. The punishment was inequal. Some may manage to escape the Omicrons, some may barely lose anything, because they only have cheap ( C ) AUs unmounted, others will lose, as I mentioned, material they must've worked dozens of hours on to get them. And this is in no relation to the delicts actually commited. The admins had no way of telling if *that* battleship is more to blame for it than *this* fighter and should lose his way more expensive equipment, instead, they decided to just do "the same" to a group of players who were in the same group. Note the quotation marks, because I just pointed out in this paragraph that the punishments weren't the same at all.

3. The corsairs have nothing to do with the punishment. As I mentioned before, the players weren't sanctioned for destroying the corsair base. This would've happened with or without the Hessians. They were, apparently, sanctioned for violating their own ID regulations by joining a group with each other. The corsair have no entitlement to revenge based on this at all. With their base being in enemy space, they should know what expects them, and this can't be compared to a bunch of players being placed by an admin sanction to be farmed by the corsairs in a helpless situation.

Lastly, I also want to criticize the way this was carried out by the admins. This:

Consequences:

The success of the Hess/Bret Combined Forces BattleGroup is possibly short lived. You can however now
re-create it 350 kms above the plane in Omicron Lost, as you are all sitting there.
Suiciding or Death may prove expensive ...

Note how the players were deliberately placed in Omicron Lost to have them go rough a bottleneck jumphole out in space. This situation wasn't only abused by the corsairs, it was planned by the admins. And on top of all that, do you think a good way to show that they shouldn't ally with each other is by forcing them into another battle against the same mutual enemy yet again, requiring more teamwork? I can't quite follow that logic. Also, I think "redistributing" equipment as part of an inappropriate revenge act is quite a bad idea. The corsairs shouldn't be abusing a sanction to get equipment that doesn't belong to them. If you look at the situation the other way around, if someone told me a player was banned to Omicron Lost with his *very very expensive* equipment unmounted to expect to be lolfarmed by his enemy and lose it, I would think "Hmm... He must've commited quite a bad rule violation". Rather, you put that fate in place for roughly 40 players, even though it was merely someone making the quick decision of inviting the Hessians to the group everyone was in. I've had a little experience with administrating a server from other games, and while they may not be full with 200 players at a time, I knew not to put admins with sadistic tendencies in place to carry out sanctions. Really, this sanction statement makes more sense coming from a movie supervillian announcing his evil plan over a hijacked radio channel to bring panic and despair across the audience than an action a neutral admin should carry out.

That's all I have to say from my side.

[Mímir]

Great thread, keep it going:-)

The fact of the matter is that all this could have been avoided if RH/BAF had applied a tiny bit of common sense. Grouping or not grouping is - in my view - of no importance, as you simply just shouldnt be there side by side ganking a base to begin with. RH shouldnt have joined in, and when they did BAF should have chased them off - in all seriousness when do you allow a capital warfleet from a known unlawful/terrorist organization within your space???

Now we get all these after-rationalizations about how Bretland once used the RH in an attempt to bully Rheinland back when the mild hostilities was going on and bla bla bla. It is borderline ridiculous.

Even the punishment is fitting, albeit harsh: Both sides lost something of tangible value (although if anybody lost their CAU's and gear, I would really blame their own stupidity - why log back on right away when the text in the sanction thread was explicit about your ships' current location and more-or-less explicit about your ships' unmounted gear).

So instead of making a 12-page whining thread (which is somewhat entertaining to read though), just man up, admit to your blatant oversight/manipulation of RP premises ("oh in fact we are best of buddies with the RH and vice versa, lol") and get on with it. You got the 'Sair base, mission accomplished.

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[Croft]

So the fact that a few Hessians showed up we should be sanction by loosing billions in equipment. I admit the Hessians should not of been there but the fact of the matter is the punishment is not equal to the crime, we frequently ally with the Mollys (in the same group etc) against the Corsairs and GRN yet I've never seen our group beamed to Lost with our armour unequiped?

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Jimmy The Rat | Croft's Feedback | The Rat Pack

[Vladimir]

What is reasonable diplomacy in your eyes?

Getting more allies, friends, neutrals and whatnot instead of enemies when you can do that.

You know. Common sense.

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