Fighters should be fun...

[StarButt]

Alas ur thinking too narrnw. That weapon would help in duels. We need high refire to solve issue of stopping bombers and fighters targeting others. We need gatlings and chainguns not snipers.
(I'm using my cell phone so can't fix banner untill I get to PC)

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[SimonBlack]

Here's the eco-system. What eats what.

Fighters --> Bomber --> Cruiser --> Battleship

Fighters eat bombers because bombers arent agile and have low fire power, therefore acting as an escort for un-agile ships.

Bombers eat cruisers, since they are made to bomb bigger, slow ships such as Cruisers are. However they cant defeat a battleship (unless highly consentrated) due to its superior armor. They quickly fall to fighters.

Cruisers eat Battleships (In single players Cruiser destroyed a Battleship/Destroyer)

Battleships eat all the small ones and other battleships. (Biggest firepower used to destroy enemy fortifications and bases)

Not sure where Gunboats stand here. Well they are supposed to counter fighters, but may also inflict damager on bigger ships. Hard to say how they interact with Bombers... No experience here.

P.s. whats a diffrence between a Battleship and a Destroyer?

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Character background summaries:
Red Hessians Major Matthias Schwarz
Golden Chrysanthemums Chusa Fumiko Shimazu

[Epholl]

This is my idea about ships:

fighters - you know what this is
bombers - against caphsips
gunship - a smaller corvette/gunboat?
gunboats - small craft with a forward gun
corvettes - small craft without a forward gun
frigate - something between GBs and dessies?
destroyers - light cruisers
cruisers - middle sized capships
battlecruisers - big cruisers - battleship killers
battleships - big capships
dreadnoughts - even stronger than battleships
juggernauts - the biggest of the biggest:P

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[Badger]

Alas ur thinking too narrnw. That weapon would help in duels. We need high refire to solve issue of stopping bombers and fighters targeting others. We need gatlings and chainguns not snipers.
(I'm using my cell phone so can't fix banner untill I get to PC)

Actually Yngen's initial posts were on the topic of fighter duels, not team battles. Higher refire solves nothing as you sacrifice damage for rate of fire, look at the current chainguns. They have higher projectile speeds and refire rates than most any other fighter weapon, yet can you kill fighters any easier with them? No.

This proposed sniper weapon would be beneficial in duels with those projectile speeds, and also good against targets you're chasing, given you have good enough aim to land them. The numbers I came up with are based loosely on the Cannonball Missile stats, exchanging the missile's ability to track for high projectile speed instead.

[edit - just checked, chaingun projectile speeds were nerfed to 700m/s actually, my bad. Even so, I recall them being equally useless at their higher speeds and refire rates anyway, so my point stands.]

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Evil The Badger - Blood Dragon
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[yurineova]

Actually Yngen's initial posts were on the topic of fighter duels, not team battles. Higher refire solves nothing as you sacrifice damage for rate of fire, look at the current chainguns. They have higher projectile speeds and refire rates than most any other fighter weapon, yet can you kill fighters any easier with them? No.

This proposed sniper weapon would be beneficial in duels with those projectile speeds, and also good against targets you're chasing, given you have good enough aim to land them. The numbers I came up with are based loosely on the Cannonball Missile stats, exchanging the missile's ability to track for high projectile speed instead.

[edit - just checked, chaingun projectile speeds were nerfed to 700m/s actually, my bad. Even so, I recall them being equally useless at their higher speeds and refire rates anyway, so my point stands.]

A quick post in High refire weps;

High refire weps werent set to the right standard as others. A purple goddess chain gun (considering all shots hit) only does 1550 damage, where as a Firekiss MKII does about 1900 damage. If the damage was upped on the purple goddess to 1900 total, it would be the # 1 choice over the slow weps.

High refire weps do less damage cause they are shooting alot of projectiles. the theory is 1 shot misses, 10 more hit. slow refire and slow speed weps are a pain to use (Ask any RM char that has Firekisses.). My bomber uses Hornvipers over Firekisses because I have a better chance in hitting with them and doing small damage vs no damage.

It all depends on the pilot in how effective a weapon is.

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signature goes here once its done!

[StarButt]

Current chainguns are usless cos of the puny DPS and even worse energy efficiency almost 2:1. And these were bad even b4 last patch. Since patch allready worthless guns got even more nerfed. I fail to see any logic in that. I was suggesting balistic kind that would use ammo like missiles. Even some sort of FFAR (google it) with high speed, high refire and unguided, would help a lot.


Current chainguns are usless cos of the puny DPS and even worse energy efficiency almost 2:1. And these were bad even b4 last patch. Since patch allready worthless guns got even more nerfed. I fail to see any logic in that. I was suggesting balistic kind that would use ammo like missiles. Even some sort of FFAR (google it) with high speed, high refire and unguided, would help a lot.

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[bluntpencil2001]

Ultra-high-refire guns had their refire lowered because they can cause lag rather easily. That's why their use is discouraged.

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[mjolnir]

I was writing a long post about my thoug here yesterday... but it got deleted before send because of this crappy notebook.. .and I don't have power to write everything again... so I will be short:)

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Alas ur thinking too narrnw. That weapon would help in duels. We need high refire to solve issue of stopping bombers and fighters targeting others. We need gatlings and chainguns not snipers.
(I'm using my cell phone so can't fix banner untill I get to PC)

You are wrong here... my 2.00 refire Wrath is the best thing for stopping bombers......both in 1on1 and defending a capship.
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Increasing weapons speed... .would not help...even duels between good aimers last long.... this will just get everyone to that level

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I wanted to suggest increasing missile/mine damage ... while there is a difference between wireframe/non-wireframe ships..... wireframe ones allready now die to one nuke and sometimes die to one cannonball... so no big change for them

btw... stop saying that missiles are broken... they do work a bit.. just don't do the damage necessary to non-vanilla ships

I would love to see unguided rockets (as Starbutt suggested), there was already something about them in the missile thread....
they should have high refire/high speed (1000+)/not very high damage (need to be balanced against GBs, damage should be lover than tracking/slower missiles provided those are upped)
.... they would be really nice against bombers... and with 70 ammo (max in FL i believe) they would not be spammed so much...
(the sniper weapon is something along those lines too)

decreasing universal armor upgrade to some 1.5-2 would also be nice.... while keeping bots/bats
This would make many hits in a short time as well as missiles deadly... while the lucky hits from "spray and pray" would be repaired with bots/bats.

increasing normal gun damage is however a bad idea.... fighters will get very deadly against GBs and even bigger caps... with missile/unguided misilles you still have the limited ammo supply.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[chopper]

70 is not the max, really. It's just so, because of the other ammo.

Decreasing universal armor upgrade would help less then increasing the damage on fighter weps.
Almost all caps use capital ship armor anyway.
So, increasing damage on fighter weps would help against fighters, while they would not become weak against caps.

Increasing speed would actually help, as most of people have mastered the art of dodging to the max, and because of that, they can't go much further.
And even if they can, there is no bad-side in increasing wep speed, correct?
In the worst case, by your words, it will remain the same. And it's worth giving a shot.

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It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del

[Badger]

I would love to see unguided rockets (as Starbutt suggested), there was already something about them in the missile thread....
they should have high refire/high speed (1000+)/not very high damage (need to be balanced against GBs, damage should be lover than tracking/slower missiles provided those are upped)
.... they would be really nice against bombers... and with 70 ammo (max in FL i believe) they would not be spammed so much...
(the sniper weapon is something along those lines too)

70 is not the max, really. It's just so, because of the other ammo.

Max ammo is a universal variable in Freelancer, sorry but no high refire rate gun with expendable ammo is viable due to this limitation.

The way I'm seeing it Mjolnir, that's an agreement with Starbutt's weapon proposal, albeit with the "sniper" modifications I suggested, to make it a non-guided cannonball variant a la the missile thread you mention. Any developments on that?

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