The Mollys + Post #109.

[Hexx]

Mollys have a wide zone of operation for trading. This should be noted if someone thinks they're out of their operating area.

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It's Hexx against the world.

Hexx won.

[Avalanche]

Diplomacy with the IMG has changed.

[Jack_Henderson]

IMG left Dublin.

The amount of warmongering that the Molly players [M] (and indies alike) have displayed was just too much to continue reasonable play with you in a non-pewpew only way. I tried to keep a solution without pewing possible, but you were not interested, very obviously.

Some Molly players consequently interpreted every indie or Rookie-IMG| action (the indie argus in D6) as something terrible, and false facts (IMG sends Reavers after Mollys!!!) were intensified to a degree where coop became impossible. When Molly diplomacy started to follow the actions of 2 indie extremists (O'Reilys) and [M] allowed them to shape Molly diplomacy completely, things became ridiculous (don't get me wrong, I like the O'Reily play. But [M] should know better than to fall into that line if they want to be the official Molly faction). When IMG tries to hit back at O'Reily (via bounty), we are metagamed and all of a sudden everybody knows that we used Reavers to hit O'Reilys. When we attacked directly, we "launched a huge attack against Arranmore base" (we shot O'Reily, no one else and I said so 100 times). When an O'Reily shot torpedos at an IMG Hydra in a peaceful discussion (OORPly aimed at solving things, [M] had invited us), and an IMG bomber snacs the O'Reily seconds later, it's a full blown Molly-IMG war. Declared by [M].

Further criticism: You ask me for a talk, you say "Gather your people, everybody should have their say". I do so. Then you show up, see that the IMG really have brought some people. You dock again. I ask on skype what happens? "Nothing". You decided not to come because we have a "warfleet"?! Hey, that was an roleplay invitation that you made, and I told you we will not shoot you. I wanted IMG members to take part in it. It's not really nice to make me try and mobilize my people, then you just go "Nah, sorry. Don't want". That's disrespectful, against the players.

To sum it up: I am disappointed.

I was interested in roleplay.You wanted the pewfest (and you made everyone understand you really want it), do it in Dublin without me. And without IMG.

I scrapped my Dublin rp completely. I sent my main character in an extended holiday from Dublin. And we moved out our gear today.

You seem to be determined to be in Dublin alone again.

Congratulations. You can have it.

Andy, IMG| Guildmaster

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[Linkus]

I have reservations over the decisions made regarding dealing with the IMG situation.
Namely, the Mollys need to remember that the IMG aide them by supplying them and also selling their gold.
Other than the IMG, only the Junkers can sell Molly gold easily.
It isn't a good idea to remove 50% of your market and leave the remaining 50% in the hands of Junkers, who could easily just pay the Mollys far less for their gold now.

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Facilitating the rise of robotics since 0 A.D.

[Hone]

Nope, friendly. They both operate in different areas, and neither are too keep on foreigners. While they do have things in common, they aren't allies.

Where do you get that from, cos on the rep sheet ingame it says they are allies, and when I'v met hessians ingame we've always refered to ourselves as allies.

If you're saying your [M] faction wants to have freindly instead of allied status with Hessians, then, well, ok I guess. But the NPC factions are allied.

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User was banned for: Griefing others
Time left: (Permanent)

[Govedo13]

IMG left Dublin.
To sum it up: I am disappointed.

Well I will try to be brief on that one.
1) When [M] was created we had the situation where inactive rests of the molly council had some treaty with |IMG. O'Reilly were shooting |IMG because they thought that this treaty is embarrassing for the Mollys and their Interests. We took some position in the middle agreeing that this treaty dont suit [M] interests and it is too biased towards |IMG.
2) I personally as well Avalanche tried to make new agreement that suits the Molly side better, I was quite sure that I would make the O'Reilly not to shoot the |IMG if the |IMG would agree to terms that are more suitable for the molly side,after all we are talking about mining in the Molly Field, so Mollys should have the final word on it not |IMG.
3) We both- me and Avalanche were working on new treaty proposal,we were not able to finish it because the MMC people didn't replied and didn't showed up to discuss stuff meanwhile we decided that we should not tax as much the IMG miners as the BMM ones . We taxed one |IMG miner 1000 pieces of Gold then the whole |IMG stunts started. We dont like stunts Jack. We speak simple. We wont allow IMG to mine in Molly Fields for the laughable 1 mill credits if ever catched, we are not MMC. If you bring warships near our base expect to be shoot upon, after all why would you bring them, if you does not intent to use them? I wasn't there yesterday but I saw the Hone scenes- they were quite enough to get the idea.
4) The whole stuff with leaving proves my point- you and your organisation are interested and driven only by Profit. When you clearly got the point that we are not MMC and |IMG wont mine in our field almost for free you packed you bags and left to mine somewhere else where you can make more profit unharmed.
5) I guess I was the only one who believed that |IMG would agree to treaty that allows them to make profit but as well satisfies the other side of the fence. I am also disappointed. You can't eat your cake, and have it too, learn to cut your profits, as the same way that I jump on the people's heads about flying Sabres as Mollys because it fits more in RP, not because I like it, I personally prefer to fly Sabre instead of Greyhound but my RP doesn't allow me to do so.
6) I cannot understand why people cannot get the idea that Mollys are terrorist organisation and they will be role-played as one. We [M] should not carry the rests of the former RP done by other people with other visions. For more info see the first page the faction goals, they haven't been changed since the first post is made and wont be changed.
7) Linkus I know that in Vanilla Mollys were only depending on the IMG and the Junkers, we are happy that it is not Vanilla any-more. The situation is much different, organisations involved are different, with different capabilities. Mollys can trade with Hessians, Line Hackers, Junkers, Rogues and any kind of independent smugglers and traders, hell I am also quite sure that we can make something even with the gallic unlawfuls.....I also have idea to make some RP with Zoners for supply's in exchange for not shooting them. We can use them all to ship our gold and we as well can organise our own convoys to do so, nothing changes for us actually as in-game terms or in-rp terms.
8) Hone- npc faction might be ally we are friendly till we achieve ally status with RP as we intend.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Linkus]

Govedo, the mod does not support your statement regarding Mollys being able to trade their gold to

Hessians, Line Hackers, Junkers, Rogues and any kind of independent smugglers and traders,

I would point out that there is no clear route to the Hessians, Lane Hackers and Rogues. Clear routes are pretty important, look at the Unioner/Hessian blood diamond route importance.

The Rogues, Lane Hackers and Hessians also have to sell that Gold to somewhere remember.
Who do they sell it to?
The IMG and Junkers.

No unlawful faction has a direct link to the lawful markets, they must use the neutral factions to sell their goods. Hence why the Junkers, IMG and Zoners exist as they do now.

The Mollys can't rely on the Zoners for gold sales.
Go back 2 months and we were shooting them.

Until the mod reflects that the Mollys can safely ignore the IMG's route to the market, they are reliant on them for it.

I mean, RP wise they are still reliant on them. There's no way for Molly gold to reach lawful markets without going through the Junker/IMG/Zoner middleman.

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Facilitating the rise of robotics since 0 A.D.

[finsch]

Govedo, you and Avalanche are working out what?

Time to bring out my old UOG chars and show you how me think about this 'We [M] should not carry the rests of the former RP done by other people with other visions.'

From what i can see you are about to cause trouble because you found a given lore you can abuse instead to play along with other players and enhance the game experience.

Take a look at your response, why are the Mollys interested in the profits of IMG anyway?
If you do you are pretty corrupt as player in the first place i fear trying to abuse the so called terrorist role-play - which are the Gaians, not the Mollys - they are separatists.

Oh yes this is not a particular 'taste' this is a mod with a lore developed by players who put a lot of effort into this lore and system modding, and had to leave due personal issues.

[Govedo13]

I guess we are going at the egg or the chicken stuff. Or the corsairs and food stuff. The in-Game Realities and In-RP "should-be" stuff. Since I am a bit sick of this "in RP" bull I will try to explain my point of view:

Govedo, the mod does not support your statement regarding Mollys being able to trade their gold without IMG.

How much gold the mollys should trade/mine "In-Game" realities to meet the expected "In-RP" realities? Or to make the mod to accept it?

The Rogues, Lane Hackers and Hessians also have to sell that Gold to somewhere remember.
Who do they sell it to?

To the bases and smelters that pay for it, that's why it is called smuggling- it is not legal,it uses not the common trade channels,otherwise it will be trading.

No unlawful faction has a direct link to the lawful markets, they must use the neutral factions to sell their goods. Hence why the Junkers, IMG and Zoners exist as they do now.

This is "inRP" assumption. I can make other "inRP" assumption that unlawful organisations manage to bribe lawful organisation members and do shady deals together. Remember that we can assume everything "inRP", that's why I prefer more "In-Game" stuff and tend to think that only the "In-Game" stuff is important- this is the real "In-RP" stuff for me because it happens for real.

The Mollys can't rely on the Zoners for gold sales.Go back 2 months and we were shooting them.

I agree here and I never said that we would rely on them,we would ask nicely zoners to supply our bases in order to forgive them about corsairs and Grand Canaria. We can also shoot zoners if they don't like our nice ways.

Until the mod reflects that the Mollys can safely ignore the IMG's route to the market, they are reliant on them for it.

This could also apply for the rest of all faction agreements and faction RP, it means that corsairs and order are ally now or it applies solely on Mollys?

I mean, RP wise they are still reliant on them. There's no way for Molly gold to reach lawful markets without going through the Junker/IMG/Zoner middleman.

I am also quite ok with that too if you do slight in-game changes. Remove the IMG mining bonus for Dublin, so IMG wont be able to mine the Molly fields like they do now and they would be free to buy as much ore as they want from Mollys if they want to. I guess you cannot address the issue here right. The issue is not "in-RP" one. It is "in-Game" one. The issue is that IMG mines in Molly gold fields, Mollys want fair cut in this case, IMG disagrees and pack their bags and leave,this is "In-Game", we can make this to reflect "In-RP" or ignore it but it is still "In-Game" issue. Believe me or not I prefer not to shoot the IMG but I also wont let them mine for free in the Molly field in Molly claimed system. Give me something that we can do in such case "In-Game" and make it fitting "In-RP". I as well the [M] are open to suggestions how to fix the issue. This however is general question that just does not affect Mollys only.

And Finsch, thank you for the flames ,I have my flame-suit on,now you can leave.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Jack_Henderson]

4) The whole stuff with leaving proves my point- you and your organisation are interested and driven only by Profit. When you clearly got the point that we are not MMC and |IMG wont mine in our field almost for free you packed you bags and left to mine somewhere else where you can make more profit unharmed.

Wrong, if you knew me and IMG| roleplay you'd see that we are far from "only money". The Dublin-NY stuff is far from the best thing IMG can do.

We went after the Guildmasters decided that we don't like shooting Mollys, or allying with Bretonians against Molly, as we do not think that this is what IMG rp is like. So as you pushed us hard down that war path, we left to avoid doing things that we regard as nonsensical.

Don't make it easy for yourself and say "Only money makers", because it's not true. I didn't write tons of diplomacy and played countless hours in Dublin, tried hard to rebuild my favourite system after the mining desaster because of money. If you don't believe it, forum search "Jack_Henderson" and look how many Dublin Comm messages I wrote.

5) I guess I was the only one who believed that |IMG would agree to treaty that allows them to make profit but as well satisfies the other side of the fence. I am also disappointed. You can't eat your cake, and have it too, learn to cut your profits, as the same way that I jump on the people's heads about flying Sabres as Mollys because it fits more in RP, not because I like it.

Learn to respect the other side's wishes, too. That would mean you could have answered to some of my proposals, but no. It was "down the road to hostility", and: fast!. Read the chatlogs of today, if you don't believe it. That was a peace talk that [M] invited IMG to.

7) Linkus I know that in Vanilla Mollys were only depending on the IMG an the Junkers, we are happy that it is not Vanilla any-more. The situation is much different, organisations involved are different, with different capabilities. Mollys can trade with Hessians, Line Hackers, Junkers, Rogues and any kind of independent smugglers and traders, hell I am also quite sure that we can make something even with the gallic unlawfuls..... We can use them all to ship our gold and we as well can organise our own convoys to do so, nothing changes for us actually as in-game terms or in-rp terms.

Yeah, just another case where a small, new faction is completely independent, never needs anybody (if it doesn't fit them at the moment), they have everything, do everything on their own... great.

I liked the IMG-Molly-BAF-BMM situation in Dublin because it was unique. But okay. Move back to a black-white shooting-Dublin (unlawfuls vs. lawfuls). There will be no activity, as you eradicated BMM miners in less than a week, then switched to more or less open hostility against IMG, just to jump on the first real chance to go fully hostile and start pewing.



I do not contend that the IMG-MMC treaty was not ideal. And we were working on it.

What I cannot understand is that you hurried down the path to hostility that fast. Because, frankly, of course the IMG will not bend over backwards at your first sign of emerging as a faction. And they will not like you charging 3-5 times as much. And they will hate being shot at by people you do support. So... what do you expect my roleplay would be? We tried to use MMC to soften you. We tried to neutralise the extremists. Of course we do! That's roleplay.

I always tried to keep the way back to reasonable solutions open (but your side seemed to love to exaggerate every roleplay action into something you could use to push for hostility). Just an example: I guess I answered between 20 and 40 Hood incidents that involved Mollys misbehaving. Did we go hostile? Did we turn you from friendly to hostile? Or to neutral? Or to unfriendly? No. It was small incidents, good fun and sometimes a nuisance, but NEVER something big. We moved to Arranmore ONCE. With a good reason after all the violence caused by the indies. And you play it that way. If the world was fair, I should be able to bombard Arranmore at least 20 more times and then you could draw up a Revised Arranmore Protocol (and still remain friends/neutrals). Do you see the difference in judging acts that are comparable?

I told you that the standoffs and shootings were limited, explained the moves and the reasons. And from the Skype conversations and the often playful mood, I gathered that we were fine and that it was controlable

We had all these discussions and OORP ideas of how to do it.

And then... it takes a "peace-meeting" and 1 O'Reily starting to fire without provocation to cause war between Molly and IMG.

[M] alter their diplomacy at that very moment to fully red without declaring anything on the forums, all I get is a 1-line skype pm. You do not even try to avoid it, while I tried in all the meeting to answer your hundreds of chaotic questions in a serious and diplomatic way. But no one on the [M] side seemed interested... you seemed like you were looking for an excuse to move on. You were given it, again by an indie. Here we are, at war.

But we will not wage war against Molly. That's unlogical from IMG| point of view. Because we remember that Mollys and IMG emerged from the same roots, from exploited workers. You took up arms. We did not. It's still a worker's, small person's movement. The IMG is also not the greedy corporation but a loose guild of miners that hate to be exploited because of their weakness.

Today you tell me IMG are "foreigners" in Dublin and we should get out as we don't belong there. *just shakes his head*

Ah, let's leave it at that.

I voiced my criticism and I think you cannot blame the rapid deterioration on IMG. It was your path, you wanted to go to conflict, you went there directly without caring for other opportunities or for the voices of moderation. [M] exaggerated everything to the extreme (e.g. your treatment of MMC, an irp economic asset to Mollys and not "traitors") and so you can't be surpirsed if the Guild does not want to be the target of Mollys.

We are no war faction. If we are confronted by war (and thus our main task becomes impossible to do), we move on - something the IMG can do as we have more regions to go to. So we went.

It's a pity that all the roleplay activity in Dublin will be wasted, but it's no use running from or fighting against the people that in my understanding of Molly-IMG relations should not even be thinking seriously of being hostile. Almost completely ignoring/destroying the roleplay that proceeded your faction start (or at least treating the players/their rp with respect) and ignoring the lore (that is the only unifying aspects that define how Sirius works) is something that I do not agree with.

Andy - IMG|

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+ IMG| DISCORD: https://discord.gg/TWrGWjp
+ IMG| IS RECRUITING: Click to find out more!