Vito has it right in his examination of my post - pretty much what I meant to say, but im a bit sleep deprived.
Anyway - For the longest time I didnt understand corsair rp at all - This mostly comes from my experience as a zoner, and administrator of FP1 - the sheer amount of blatant hostility directed towards me at the beginning was confusing - add to this some misunderstandings later. I took the opportunity to talk with Vito and get an explanation as to what corsairs are all about.
Primarily, corsairs are convinced of there own superiority - a society of warriors that have survived with barely nothing, and even become a terror to sirius as a whole - they have a lot to be proud of. However, that superiority also makes them more racist than any group of people in sirius - they think of there own society first, always, and the rest second, if at all. A corsair would not think twice about killing a dozen people, combatants or not, to feed one person on his home planet.
That I find incredibly off putting. Not because I disagree with it - it makes perfect sense for them - but it heavily clashes with my own morals. I have never advocated with the idea of killing the more fortunate and taking there stuff - good examples being the french revolution, and the bolshevik uprising.
Because of a corsairs inherent racism and superiority complex, whether they want to rule just cambridge and stuttgart, or all of sirius, or the entire universe it self - a corsair will never bend knee to someone who isnt a corsair. So the corsairs would never agree to be part of an idyllic society where everyone gets what they need to be content in there lives - unless that society was ruled by the corsairs. Makes there coexistance with the ultimate goal of the Coalition impossible.
As for the Ventru - yeah, they willingly gave up there lives to feed the rest. Thats probably one of the more misunderstood aspects of corsair lore - but I think the corsairs like blowing it out of proportion so the majority of space fairing folk think every corsair is gonna steal there stuff, take there wife for some fun, there children for the cookpot, and you for some target practice.
You can argue all you want that a corsair would not kidnap a family, torture the father, rape the wife, and eat the children - but its the attitude you put out to make people scared of you.
In every way above I have mentioned, this clashes violently with base line Coalition propaganda on what we want sirius to be. a Coalition Sirius has no place for a society of people like the corsairs.
Keep in mind i said "society" not race. The coalition is indeed made up of many former corsairs. The reason why makes sense to me - in fact, i can see any place in society where a corsair character could make sense, just by the sheer fact of wanting to escape his Cretan Society for X reason. I can list examples, but it speaks for itself. Crete Life is not for everyone.
But i've noticed that corsairs are ever that more vehement and cruel to those corsairs who have left crete - again, the reason why is simple - they abandoned sparta because they were weak, soft, cowardly, etc - they turned there backs on the starving people to make there own bellies fat - etc.
So, do I understand your faction Zelot? Vito? Bindo?
Secraficing 5 people you don't care to save one you actually love makes all the sense to me. And I would, propably do the same. You know, then I was a child I barely could understand why some characters in the movie skrew up everything for the sake of one person they love. Later then I grow up, I realised that... I would prolly do the same. Even knowing it's not right. And I doubt that anyone being human would do anything else. Of course this is very contraversial subject but..
You know then you really imagine your own kin dying out of starvation (Crete) and seeing your neighbours shipping luxury foods (cambrige) doesn't it fill your heart with feeling of unjustice and hatred? Pretty much same concept of oppressed worker who is unjustly underpaid for all the money he makes to tyrant corporations.
(I, in no way, justify violant approuch to this matter be it taking by force, be it revolutions by slaughering entire class of people who refuse to give up)
But anyway. Yes I understood what you want to say. But clearing the question with sairs doesn't clear the question with ID. Alltough I really enjoyed this little discurse which proves that same more sensetive subjects can be discussed in civil manner : )
Alltough I guess we could go on and on.. for example the coalition sabotaging Hispania. Which actually caused birth of such factions as Outcasts and Corsairs to begin with. Irony...
I can understand it, but morally I cant support it - The memory of taking a persons life, who might have otherwise been a good friend had circumstances been different, knowing that i caused heartbreak for his family, friends, etc - well, that kinda blood I wouldn't be able to live with on my conscience - I'm just not...i dunno, selfish enough, i guess? to put my needs and my families needs over another persons needs.
But I've never been in that situation, so it's all academic.
As for seeing from the corsair point of view - I can, easily. It's trying to view the corsairs from the outside perspective that I'm explaining. Can diehard corsair players understand why people dont like, maybe would want to kill off there faction? The reasons are clear - once you see it that way, its easy to understand why people are at war with them - especially the coalition.
Anyway - as far as the ID - whats the real crux of the issue is trust.
' Wrote:As for seeing from the corsair point of view - I can, easily. It's trying to view the corsairs from the outside perspective that I'm explaining. Can diehard corsair players understand why people dont like, maybe would want to kill off there faction? The reasons are clear - once you see it that way, its easy to understand why people are at war with them - especially the coalition.
Anyway - as far as the ID - whats the real crux of the issue is trust.
From outside, sairs are propably so scary, that mothers scare their children not to wonder outside at the night using their name. Because sair might get them and eat them. That's pretty much what I love about the faction I invested most of my time durning the years on this server.
Some people really used to act sensetive about being called cannibal on and on. But my reaction is rather pleasent. Even if other player is doing a right thing for the wrong reasons.
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' Wrote:From outside, sairs are propably so scary, that mothers scare theri children not to wonder outside at the night, cuz sair might get them and eat them.
I really don't get that. The Ventru story is found on Planet Crete, and isn't really shared with outsiders. How did "these were our honoured ancestors" turn into "be scared, I'll eat you grr"?
' Wrote:I really don't get that. The Ventru story is found on Planet Crete, and isn't really shared with outsiders. How did "these were our honoured ancestors" turn into "be scared, I'll eat you grr"?
Me neither. In actuallity a lot of stuff strikes me. For example under what circumstances sairs should fly brick ships?.. well I can understand the titan, ok. But other ones? V]anilla inforcard about legionnaire states that ship provides the speed for sair to get out of trouble as fast as he gets into it. Pretty much stating that these guys don't construct bricks only.
But this thing as well as cannibalism thing piereced their roots so deep into the gameplay that I doubt it's possible to change it willingly.
So what else players can do? Ignore it.. it's more fun to play along rather than to be pissed off at everything all the time.
' Wrote:Despite my higher than average IQ, top notch education, and series of brain altering surgeries, I still cannot figure out why people don't like exclusive factions.
On that note, I would like to say that I have been very disappointed the last three times I have encountered the Hellfire Legion. They did not blast me into oblivion (as some people seem to think they are wont to do), nor did they offer me underage prostitutes. Shame on you for not living up to your bad reputation.
Noted. Next time we'll be sure to find a reason to kill you and then offer said prostitutes as compensation for the ship.
"Despite my higher than average IQ, top notch education, and series of brain altering surgeries, I still cannot figure out why people don't like exclusive factions."
I think a lot of people do not have any problem with some factions being exclusive if their find their place in discovery freelancer. But then some factions are treated diffrently ruleswise, just becouse they are exclusive or made up.. well doesn't really give a fair feeling of equel treatment.
And thats why some people rise up a couple of points about ID's and that action should be taken.
I can understand that some factions gets really defensive then it comes to their stuff. For example, SCRA. Because such requiriment really hurts their pride. To the point that they are not worthy of trust. Anyway, it's not about who is more trustable and who is not. It's about giving everyone an basis to be treated according the rules same way as anyone else are.
' Wrote:I can understand it, but morally I cant support it - The memory of taking a persons life, who might have otherwise been a good friend had circumstances been different, knowing that i caused heartbreak for his family, friends, etc - well, that kinda blood I wouldn't be able to live with on my conscience - I'm just not...i dunno, selfish enough, i guess? to put my needs and my families needs over another persons needs.
But I've never been in that situation, so it's all academic.
The SCRA is a terrorist organization that murders the armed forces of various nations (except the BAF for some reason) in order to broker political change at gunpoint. They're the HF on an international scale. Additionally they routinely kill their own citizenry for giggles, for speaking up or littering the walkway of their recruitment drives.
Furthermore it's hardly been but a few months since the leadership of the same initiated a course of action with the end objective of enslaving the total near entirety of the military and civilian populace via "nerve stapling".
Corsairs have less than they need and are looking to take more. There's a modicum of empathy one can extend that way.
The SCRA is looking to secure power by force of violence and unethical enslavement, engages in hypocrisy at every turn and supports the leadership of madmen who would have them shed their humanity in the pursuit of a centuries old agenda.
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