Silent Traders

[Omi]

Sanction, yes, but not in the sense of them being outright punished. Certainly not for the first instance of it.

Just a short trip to Bastille and a thread asking for a reply in coherent English, to show that they can. Then it's time to start doing. That's how I would do it, anyway.

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[GalaxyOil]

Another-View. Silence in a trader can mean many things 1-he,s thinking of an escape plan. 2:he,s talking to somebody else prob military back-up to come and rescue him. 3: he finding the f1 button! Pirates remember silence is non-compliance and grounds for killing them! same as not-stopping and dropping and destroying of cargo! Also asking you to kill them! simple! kill-em. if you end up with the cargo what do you care anyway. Some people have ego,s that don,t like being caught by pirates who outwit them thats prob why they don,t want to converse with you! i pirate because i like the pirate role and it,s good when traders role-play with you but if they don,t thats ok too. They still lose their cargo! What i don,t like is outplaying a trader who,s as slippery as an eel finally getting him and robbing him (with-Skill) and five minutes after the server gets reset to 5 min,s before i stopped him! and i lose the cargo and or credits and he,s got them all back. Not cricket gents! and jolly bad-form.

[Karst]

As much as I dislike encountering silent traders on my pirate ships, I agree with Jinx. It makes no sense for a trader to be forced to respond to a pirate demand - if they don't, they'll feel the consequences soon enough.

I mean, would that result in situations like a totally silent trader being sanctioned, but a trader that goes "no i hate you pirate!" being fine? Seems pretty absurd to me.

It doesn't really make sense for someone on the defensive side of an encounter to have to talk, much in the same way said pirate doesn't have to say "defending myself" when engaged by a lawful.

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[Luke.]

Well if it were made sanctionable... the .:j:. would be screwed. I mean, what?

Anyway, call it broken comms yadda, yadda, yadda...personally I'm not fussed because it means I get to shoot at 'em. Well, that was the case in .86 anyway. Then the devs went and made transports even harder to kill if they fight back and therefore it becomes quite the strenuous exercise, killing piracy etc etc buuuut i'll leave that topic for now otherwise yes, deja vu everywhere.

It's mostly lolwuts that want money for their Valors to go fly everywhere they please and blow everything up. It's Liberty that i've noticed to be the worst for silent traders (another thing Liberty is bad at) though unfortunately, that's also where the most traffic is.

I've no real solutions to it but maybe just give 'em a PM like "dude, being silent ain't gonna help you" or something. I know, I know, being nice to newbies; what's all that about!? But you can't make it sanctionable as such. Perhaps reportable and the sanction (if you can call it that) could be just a warning and nothing more. If they get ganked as a result (does group piracy ever happen anymore?) and they die, maybe then they'll learn quickly that being silent means death.

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[Garrett Jax]

@jax: in another complaint thread - someone said he gets angry when he meets a trader on his trader - and he greets the other trader - but the other trader remains silent. while arguably good manners to return a greeting - is that ooRP, too? - and should we greet everyone back who greets us in space, too?

do we do that in RL? - imagine driving on a lone road - after 10 hours driving you pass another car - will you wave and greet that foreign driver? or just pass him.

Step away from the ledge, Jinx. All I'm doing is asking questions and promoting discussion on this subject. I would look at this thread as an opportunity for both sides to state their case and give reasonable feedback on a controversial issue.

Personally, my feelings on this issue are that silent traders are OORP, but not sanctionable. That is the stance I've taken when they show up on violation reports. However, I like to get the thoughts of the community.

Telling me that it's a 'stupid idea to make "remaining silence" a sanctionable offense' is your opinion and I respect that. However, it's not the only opinion I respect and I'd like to hear from as many as possible on the subject in order to get a wide perspective.

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[Ursus]

There's no rule requirement for anybody to go along with any kind of RP. Grief-of-the-week RP included.

If we are going to start requiring reasonable RP in all cases then I'm going to start filing sanctions against every tard pirate that runs and hides behind Alcatraz without docking.

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Discovery 24/7 Negotiating Tactics:

[Daron]

I see some misconception here.

Most of these silent ones do not care about RP and the forums alike.
As soon as we post and discuss here we are not silent anymore and may provide some story.

*shrugs*

TBH I have no clue to enhance it.

[Mímir]

Here's a typical current-state-of-disco piracy encounter from yesterday, complete with sob-stories about the player, his tears, and his son:





Sadly no rule can fix this and with the current player count we can't afford to run people like this off the server, so it's a real dilemma.

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[Teerin]

Beginning part to MiniStryke's post really made me laugh.

Anyway, I think that if it were made sanctionable, the penalties ought to be light. For all we know, the guy could be thinking "90k? That's four minutes of cruise. I'll grab myself something from the kitchen" or something, but is normally at the keyboard and a good roleplayer.

On the other hand, if they're at the computer and are typing nothing, it kinda ruins the fun of the aggressor who may have been looking for an RP encounter. Believe it or not, I've had a pirate ask for my pants before. And I've asked pirated for a good pizza, too. Gets quite funny, but I digress. The pirate's method of demanding could be quite poor though: "2milordai" being the classic stereotype for a reason.

So what's a trader to do? There's so many factors in a situation like this.

I'd suggest that when an Admin reviews the report material, they look at how the pirate roleplayed as well. If poor quality gets met with silence, then go easier on the target. Or as a general rule (to prevent claims of favoritism or something), maybe make the first offense just a warning or something.

Need a pros/cons list?
Pros - Warnings/sanctions would make traders more aware of the need to actually respond, and would likely increase the average roleplay value of such an encounter
Cons - So many reasons exist as to why a trader might not respond, and perhaps its in their roleplay to treat pirates with contempt

Before someone else mentions it, I'll ask. Would a rule like this apply to just trade ships? Suppose I see some activity in New York, so I log in to have a fun conversation with my unusual ship from the other side of Sirius. I find a few ships at Newark, all quite and non-responsive. They're not traders, and they're not enemies, but they're not talking in system or local. I don't want to shoot them for it, and it would be harsh to sanction. I'm just thinking aloud here though. (/me shrugs)

Last thing - a suggestion to silent traders whose RP is to be silent. Type in *static* or *no response*. That way an aggressor will know you're actually able to speak English, but don't want to talk with them inRP. Hey, just an idea.

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"You see what your knowledge tells you you're seeing. ... how, what you think the universe is, and how you react to that in everything you do, depends on what you know. And when that knowledge changes, for you, the universe changes. And that is as true for the whole of society as that is for the individual. We all are what we know, today. What we knew yesterday, was different; and so were we."
- James Burke, The Day the Universe Changed (1985)

[Curios]

kickban the silent traders, or better - clear their moneys away from accounts and from accounts they transfer cash to in order to hide it, delete their cau8 caps, etc. Problem solved.

Also, Jinx... lol. Really. You just said that, in fact, no one have to say a word on the server because It's pretty much in RP for trader to be silent because he's plotting his escape, for Pirate it's logical too because he might have a transport waiting to pick the remains and he don't want to waste time on talks, for Navy\Police because hence their job is to blow the criminals away, especially if there is a battle already going on the scene, for BHG coz their wallets are filling up out of dead unlawfuls, not their communications with them, etc, etc. Heck, Nomads. Nomads don't even need to say a word because they are out to get you by default.

However we have the set of rules that everyone here needs to throw speeches before action rolls. Because this is RP server and for environment we're all obligated to provide the, at least minimum RP - if we're assholes, or to provide a normal RP if we're fine gentlemen before pews or anything.

You're here for quiet a time to be able to understand it.

So back to silent traders (or actually whoever is not RPing) - they need tohave their banhammer, bastille, fine, flog or whatever punishment seems fit for their ignorance to the server's ideology.

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