How do we reduce player apathy/Leaving rates?

[Enkidu]

We grew up. It's natural for people to grow out of something over time. Many did it, I even did it for around and year or two. Came back this year out of nostalgia for remembering the 2009-2010 when I genuinely had fun in every aspect of the game. But things aren't the same. While they are to some extent, hell even some of the people I used to play with are still here and kicking, it just doesn't feel the same. I'll probably be leaving again when my interest drops again, it's just how it is.

So long story short - the old vets eventually get bored of the game and leave. It's a circle of life. Some return eventually, some don't. Some cry about disco being ruined, some don't. You can't just pin it to a simple thing like - lags. I personally don't mind the lag at all, even if I have a ping of 50ms and remember the days of having a stable server. I adapted to that and got over it. I'm even over the fact I used to play when there were 200 people online and now we cheer when it hits 120.

I'm not saying now I don't find any fun in the game, it's just that it's a lot harder to enjoy it fullheartedly than it was before, simply because I have played it for years now. I have seen a good bit of what it is to be seen, I've played in more than a few official and unofficial factions. Over time nothing seems fresh and new, not completely anymore.

tl;dr: Eventually the game gets boring. You've gotten to the point where you had fun in every form you could imagine and nothing is new. Then you simply move on.

Oh and what really makes me have the "apathy vibe" as you put it is realizing I'll probably never play with some of my old friends here because they're gone. I kind of grew up on this game, given I was like 13 (if math doesn't fail me) when I started playing here first so a lot of good moments on disco are like childhood memories of the good days. Not saying there weren't bad stuff in the days of old, it's just that the brain works that way and lets you remember the good over the bad.

That's exceptionally perceptive. It's a mindset I've seen mirrored over and over and over.

Then you get us younger generation players, who would have been under ten years of age way back in '03. A lot of us have discovered freelancer modded servers only in the game's twilight years, and in Disco's alleged twilight days.


I'm here for Discovery, but it seems somewhat alienatory to jump onto a crashing bandwagon. I'm attempting to create something fresh, when the prevailing mood is for closure. Rgh.

In addition, life is being awesome at times and there's always more to do. With rewards.

Real life is more fun, I'll give it that. However, there doesn't need to be a trade-off between the two.

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[Herve]

There are 2 main problems in discovery, which frustrate people:

1. Wrong or differing expectations: Some people think RP means no shooting. Some people think fulfilling your RP role and attacking your enemy is something that makes players evil people. Some people think that not being the underling beach of older players in what ever they command makes players evil people. Some people think the server is a kind of PvP league where blue messages are goals, and people who don't fight on even numbers and ship classes are breaking the rules of the PvP league and are therefore evil players.

What is needed to fix this problem: Admins say which one is wrong and which one is correct, so people drop their wrong expectations, and people stop constantly raising these long expectations with other players, which leaves players hating each other's guts over everything and anything. The people who raise these wrong expectations all the time should be told to stfu.


2. Older players, or players who side with older players, are treated preferentially. The most obvious example would be how older players get away with straight out insulting, swearing, and "trial by forum", while others are held back as soon as they do anything that remotely goes in that direction. The idea behind the admin/mods doing that is that they think they keep a community that is experienced happy this way, in contrast to keeping people who come and go the next day happy instead. The truth is that they build a community where being an arse is a right that you win by siding with the right people long enough. And this is the sort of community that we got from it.

The solution to this problem would be to smack people for bad behavior regardless of who they are. Sure, you'd lose some long-term members, who got so used of their right to be an arse that they cant function without it anymore. But people may actually start to listen to each other again and cooperate with each other, instead of working towards their right to be arses.


If you wanted to change these 2 things, you'd have to fundamentally go against a few ways that have been the standard procedure for 6 years or more, and go against people for whom discovery has been pretty much the only source of self-fulfillment/agrandisment for that period, in a "system" like that. Since that would pretty much break these people and no person who isn't an arse would actually want to do that (even if the people who would break wouldn't have a problem with breaking others), I guess we're stuck like this.

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[Tunicle]

There are some good and bad things but there has been a lot of ad hoc additions, just like bad town planning it all comes back to bite you. So here follows some random and not always fully thought out discussion points.

Get rid of Indy military/police/corporations/vanilla corporations.

Get rid of the Official factions as currently set up, but retain the tags so you want navy, play LN, police LPI, Bowex etc. and keep the RP sensible not Skype friend orientated. Fly the tag get the benefits but also the accountability.

Make the Guilds more guildlike rather than factions or paramilitaries.

You want different personal companies, security forces etc. then use the FL identity and RP the consequences.

Make sure the economy caters for different modes of earning including smuggling etc.

Bring loot/pilot dropping back.

Remove TS/TZ.

Refine technerf to link to more common sense. Frontline capitals ships for military only, state of the art Liners for the corporate fleets etc.

Restrict jumping to small vessels.

Cloaks to large ones.

Rationalise the amount of systems.

Stop having Gallia playing out the whole array of Sirius in one house. If an absolute monarchy then have all major assets under crown, just 1 ID (Navy, police and corporations) then have Council and maybe just one group or organised criminals. Something else use the FL identity (probably should have a Gallic FL ID to supplement the original one)

Thats probably long enough to alienate everyone

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[Troyan12345]

Even though lag an server problems are the things that makes people quit the real reason is that this game is just old and will eventualy die out ( when Star Citizen is out i think it will die out ).

Anyway i also came back to disco played back it 2009.
1. One problem i see is that there are just tooo many faction an too few players to cover for them
2. nobody likes grinding mining ore and trading it for a week just to get enough cash to do somthing is not in anyway fun to most people ( i like it becuase its kinda soothing just watching your ship move and fly in the amazing rehions in serios )
3 Its just too complicated at times when not knoing what is going on in the server and the rules there is just tooo much text
4 the strict RP rules sure RP is fun but when the restrictions reduce your fun that could be a problem
5 we are a dying age of gamers people prefer easyer games ( call of duty generation AKA if i dont kill somthing in 3 mins its not worth my time )
6 if u are new to disco and dont have som1 to guide you in disco you could fuck up so hard in the begining that it could just make you quit the game ( happned to 1 of ym friends )

[Backo]

I'm attempting to create something fresh, when the prevailing mood is for closure. Rgh.

In all honesty that's the mindset that should preserve Discovery. It's inevitable (thank you chrome word correction) that the folk of old would eventually leave. What actually kills the place is when the new kids on the block get their spirit for the game broken. This place needs constant new blood, eager to play, that can replace the old cells that die.

So now that I think of it, what really kills this place is the vets putting off the new people, without realizing they (the vets) won't be here forever and that the new people are needed to keep the server alive.

Whatever you do you'll never make the bitter veterans happy. All those memories of the old times, of .85 of .84, even .83 and older are only memories. They'll always remember them, cherish them and miss them. Even reverting to said mod version, setting the same rules, everything, it will still be a hollow shell of what they felt those times were. We all eventually become depleted Disco fuel. Some sooner than others.

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Republic of the Sword and Sun

[Enkidu]

I'm attempting to create something fresh, when the prevailing mood is for closure. Rgh.

In all honesty that's the mindset that should preserve Discovery. It's inevitable (thank you chrome word correction) that the folk of old would eventually leave. What actually kills the place is when the new kids on the block get their spirit for the game broken. This place needs constant new blood, eager to play, that can replace the old cells that die.

So now that I think of it, what really kills this place is the vets putting off the new people, without realizing they (the vets) won't be here forever and that the new people are needed to keep the server alive.

Whatever you do you'll never make the bitter veterans happy. All those memories of the old times, of .85 of .84, even .83 and older are only memories. They'll always remember them, cherish them and miss them. Even reverting to said mod version, setting the same rules, everything, it will still be a hollow shell of what they felt those times were. We all eventually become depleted Disco fuel. Some sooner than others.

True, and this is exactly why I persevere. But Disco is not a solo activity when it comes to occurrence generation. And what happens then? Do you kick people up the backside on Skype to play something that they don't have any enthusiasm for?

It's a difficult query without any real resolutions.

2. Older players, or players who side with older players, are treated preferentially. The most obvious example would be how older players get away with straight out insulting, swearing, and "trial by forum", while others are held back as soon as they do anything that remotely goes in that direction.

That reads a little confrontational. Let's keep this under shouting volume.

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THE SYNDIC LEAGUES
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[Herve]

I'm not shouting, honestly. I wrote that in a pensive and calm manner, trying to help everyone as best as I can.

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[Enkidu]

I'm not shouting, honestly. I wrote that in a pensive and calm manner, trying to help everyone as best as I can.

Fair enough K, but if you start going beyond general terms people start thinking you're referring to them directly, Q_Q leads to Q_Q, and everybody just abandons the topic. Besides, it can make a wee bit of sense to give the players with the most experience a reasonable leg-up at times. Older players are far more likely to understand server/community/rule/decency/ingame dynamics than newer players. I consider myself a new player, and inexperienced in comparison to people with 2011 or previous join dates. On average, I can expect them to be benign, informative people.

Sorry for jumping the gun there, just a personal impression.

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THE SYNDIC LEAGUES
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[Troyan12345]

Heres a way to help new people stay Introduce them to the universe.
Help them by starting them off
Be their friend nothing makes a newb stay like a good team in a way nobody likes to play this dull game alone
explain how RP works and what RP is supposed to be
introduce them to a faction.

Investing in their future invests in your future and there is nothing better than investing in your future !

[Herve]

Yeah what Troyan said... be their friend. I said that somewhere some time ago.

Instead, noobs and vets are playing against each other, instead of with each other. Root of all evil, of course, is JihadJoe's YOUGOTTALETTHEVETSWINALWAYS doctrine (alley am I doing it right? 24 hours aren't up yet)

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