Rules : Why you get more of them...

[Virus]

Heh... I've been playing this mod since... What? 4.76? Second mod version, after the first that was only released for a month?

Let me tell you. We needed no government, then. We had no rules. We needed no rules. We were fair to each other, we accepted our losses and celebrated our wins. So when Xoria tells you that we have rules for a reason, I can ensure you there are reasons, and they are very good ones... They weren't made just to annoy the folks that could get along and talk-out their differences. Though, there were often flames, we all were friends in the end, or at least friendly rivals. Such as Dab and myself. Never quite a friend, but nothing against him, except his huge ego. : P

At the end of the day, it all comes down to the fact that we need to just relax, play our starships game, and accept the fact that it is a game. It is a simulation that, in combination with the forums, can feel realistic at times, but frankly, discovery will one day end. And when it does, all this realism, this simulation, this dream-like fantasty...

It's going to disappear.

(edited out a few lines/paragraphs)

Exactly right, mate. Sort of what I was saying above. We played to have fun. What people need to begin to realize is that this a combat game. We fight, we kill, we die. We respawn. We have added a role-playing community around this game to make it more realistic. We made it more fun, gave it more depth, more feel, made it even more escapist that it already was. It is still, however, a game.

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Into the Maelstrom - A Measure of Salvation - Reaver Company Database

[mjolnir]

Yes it is the community that needs/wants the rules.

There is one fundamental difference between now and 8 months ago though.

8 months ago there was a very long discussion with a poll about how the re-engagement rule text should be and how long the "timeout" should be. When it was done the rule was introduced and you don't see any complains from those that were part of the discussion back then.

I do believe this trend should have went on when adding other rules.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[RonG777]

Heh... I've been playing this mod since... What? 4.76? Second mod version, after the first that was only released for a month?

Let me tell you. We needed no government, then. We had no rules. We needed no rules. We were fair to each other, we accepted our losses and celebrated our wins. So when Xoria tells you that we have rules for a reason, I can ensure you there are reasons, and they are very good ones... They weren't made just to annoy the folks that could get along and talk-out their differences. Though, there were often flames, we all were friends in the end, or at least friendly rivals. Such as Dab and myself. Never quite a friend, but nothing against him, except his huge ego. : P
Exactly right, mate. Sort of what I was saying above. We played to have fun. What people need to begin to realize is that this a combat game. We fight, we kill, we die. We respawn. We have added a role-playing community around this game to make it more realistic. We made it more fun, gave it more depth, more feel, made it even more escapist that it already was. It is still, however, a game.

I agree with you on that. It was much more enjoyable back then....

@ Xoria, That's cool, your thread, you control want you want posted, no harm in that.

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--- " I might not be much help, but by God, I'm all the help you got" ---

EFFIN' ROLEPLAY GUYS ... off to flood we go for that - Hoodlum

[Xing]

I think, larger a community grows, greater the control that must be applied.

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[n00bl3t]

I think, larger a community grows, greater the control that must be applied.

*Tries to apply same thing to Earth.*

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[monsterlancer]

Very good write up Xoria (post 1), Fellow Hoodlum (post 3), and Virus (post 11).

No matter what you do or say, for every action or reaction, there are those called the 10%'s

They yell, they scream, but sometimes the 90% change or make new rules to get them to leave the 90% in peace.

Sometimes is is easer to put more powder in the shell than grease on the wheel.

The addition of more rules and/or regulatory agents in this day and age is the only way modern internet society may attempt to contain those ten percenters. We no longer live in the age of chiverly, common sense, fairplay, and good sportsmanship. An age that even the bad guys knew there were some rules of life that applied to them. There are many of us (and I hope that I am one of them), that could sit down and play any RP or other game(s) with just the simplest of rules to set the parameters of the game. If one should slip, a wisper or pm, an apology given, and continue the game. Now days this is called a Fairy Tale.

It dosen't matter, young player, old player, brand new to Disco, or the oldest Disco player on record, somewhere in there is the Ten percenters that have never read the rules or feel that the the rules do not apply to them...and sometimes...one of the ninty percenters gets a wild hair. It is because of this we need the rules to maintain a RP server that we must have a group of dedicated moderators (ADMINS) to enforce them. I wish to thank them for their time and stamina to do this.

So, to get rid of the rules we have to go back to being individually responsible again.

[Sarawr!?]

Xoria, Virus, Hood, and Elgatodiablo.

I pretty much agree with everything the four of you said, Because the four of you all made extraordinarily good points and spoke in honesty, Initially I was one of the people that complained about the fact that there would be more rules, but, now that I understand the Why to that, I agree with it, because the people who don't respect the community, and the other players, and the way the game is meant to be played, do need to be kept in check.

So, Xoria, thank you for this post, I hope that everyone will read it.

It IS up to us, the people of the Disco Community, and the devoted players of the Mod, to respect each other, to help each other and to follow the rules, we can't expect the Admins to micro-manage it all for us, They've done more than enough for this community as it is, and it is much appreciated, So, it is on us to keep ourselves in line and in check.

If we wish to see less regulation, we all need to respect each other.

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[LN] Recruitment | Rachel Baker Bio

[kingvaillant]

Discovery exist since 2005. We have been growing and developing ever since then. only a year and a half ago, I do remember that RP rules were less strict, as well as the PvP one. Battleships players were common and accepted (except near the end of 4.83). I do recall Zoners that were flying with RM Cruiser being fully tolerated, etc, etc, and etc...

Good ole times mainly. However, in the late days, discovery has been so successful that it became victim of its own success while other servers were slowly dying. This led to a mass influx of player going to the remaining ones, as we are among the most active server (we were in intense competition with the Hamburg server in the past), people come here. So now, with all the influx of new players, older ones couldn't really be able to "teach" the newcomers how the wheel was working anymore. And subsequently, those newcomers began to abuse their rights, not because they are mean, but because most of them didn't really clicked that they were doing wrong. To counter this, the players that have been here for longer began to ask for more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more rules. It ends up being some kind of vicious circle. However, lately, I feel like the rate of players joining the server has decreased, which may be a good thing:)

Although, it is not too late to reverse the effects. The reality is that most rules are based on common sense and respect. If you have those two qualities, you only need to know like 3-5 rules, that is it.

As I've heard from some admins, the only rules they would like to enforce, if players were behaving correctly and RPing (which sadly is utopia), were major rules like F1, Re-engagement and ... forgot.

One current problem that I see with the rules is that it incites players to file reports instead of solving their issues by themselves, making me feel like I am in ye ole kids playground where they go to their mommies if they have an issue. What players should do, if they really want to have less rules would be to give support to new players, and try to deal with violators by themselves, in a respectful way.

You know, it is better for everyone to try to solve issues with rule breakers by ourselves. indeed, It would lessen the work on the admins, make the guy who violated the rule respect you(if he apologizes of course) rather than hating you for making him get sanctioned and loose all his credits, and maybe he would give you some credits to compensate (as I try to do when I do something wrong, humans we are).

So yea, a few tips:
-The other characters you see in-game are players, which thus, have feelings and deserve to be respected, whatever their age/sex/nationality/etc is.
-The person, if new, may need some help to get to know the place and the rules, best is to direct him to the forums, or at least make him buy the rule commodity and read it.
-helping a newbie to get to know the rules right away will save troubles for EVERYONE. As we say, better to prevent than to cure.
-If you are victim of a rule violator, speak to him, try to solve the issue by yourself. If he doesn't say his apology, then filling a report may be needed

Also, on a side note, if you really feel like helping newcomers, post in welcome treads, join the angels, help people asking for help if you can.

Think like discovery is some kind of mini-city. If you see a guy in help, you will surely give him a hand no?

to a better future
:)

EDIT:

Yes it is the community that needs/wants the rules.

There is one fundamental difference between now and 8 months ago though.

8 months ago there was a very long discussion with a poll about how the re-engagement rule text should be and how long the "timeout" should be. When it was done the rule was introduced and you don't see any complains from those that were part of the discussion back then.

I do believe this trend should have went on when adding other rules.

He has a point, such approach, while being long and tedious for admins to monitor would benefits the whole community a lot more

EDIT2: ElgatoDiablo also has a very valid point, some people have difficulties to accept that the game was made for PVP before hand (or the opposite) some people must accept that fact of dying. It is part of any PVP enabled game

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Director of the Liberty Security Force: Fidelity, Bravery and Integrity

The Amundsen Zone-21 Restrictions

[JakeSG]

He speaks the truth!

I havn't been here long, but from what I see all the rules are there for a reason, and all of them are logical. The problem is that every now and then we get a child who doesn't seem to care about fairplay. He doesn't realise that this server is a community and plays only to /gungun things, often resorting to tactics such as wordless engagements for that extra advantage just so they can revel in the honourless joy of killing somebody who did not have the chance to defend themselves.

Without these rules, chaos would ensue.

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For the Core.

[Angelfire]

Xoria, Hoddie, Virus and Elgato: As usual much Wisdom and eloquence prevaileth!

Unfortunately there is no other way. Conduct permitted is conduct endorsed.
People tend to 'go with the flow'.
If the 10% get away with anything, it is perceived by the masses as acceptable and becomes a norm.

Our company recently had to staff up by over 100 people. Although I was excited at the growth, Nightmares came with bigger numbers.
Herewith the things I have learned as a leader:

A small group can be left to manage itself with very few rules and policies. It actually gets rid of abusers and slackers organically because the 'majority' are more like a family protecting it's property, values and future.

Things change drastically when you deal with larger numbers.

I have had to change my Cell number because the 'family' dynamic does not work anymore, My open door policy became a liability to myself and the company, I can no longer be accessible to everyone, I simply would not get any work done!

Thus Policy is the new authority.

Rules and policies are indeed a blanket that cover the whole and restrict the freedoms of the 'innocent'.

BUT

They restrict the power of manipulators, abusors and diplomats in such a way that even if they gain any kind of power, they are still subject to the laws that govern the whole!

Rules may be there because of a mere 10%, but if left unchecked, that 10% can bring an entire community to it's knees and move on to destroy the next one all the while blaming the community for it's own destruction.

I have no desire to please such people. As a matter of fact, I brand them and list them so that their next employers are aware of their divisive tactics.

Funnily enough:

Those who would flourish in the 'family' setting, flourish just as well in the policy setting. Their primary drive is the good of the community and their attitude is almost always 'do what you can with what you have at your disposal'.

The gripers, abusers and violators are an unfortunate standard - the problem lies squarely with their psychological inadequacies - They battle with insecurities like we all do but choose to vent their weaknesses on the rest of us. They will only change under threat of rejection, severe consequence or they will leave to find a path of less resistance - easier prey if you will.

Policy will only allow those who add value to bend it's parameters.

Rules are a means to an end. Those who uphold that 'end' with their actions and attitudes will usually end up having priveledges beyond the rules.. ironically those who abuse them end up being at the mercy of the very 'limiting' parameters they originally attempt to circumvent.

It is only those who violate the law who need fear it...

...bleh... I talk too much!

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The Chronicles of Angelfire