Taxing - by Houses

[BaconSoda]

I don't like it...

It just isn't fun. I come here to escape Real Life, and that's just making it even more like it. I like to not have to pay for stuff unless I want to buy something....

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[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.

[tansytansey]

I like it. Smugglers would become those that dodge taxes by using jump holes. Brings in a whole new world of RP for me.
It might also deter people from the Diamond run. Imagine having to pay a percentage tax at each border plus 2 mil to every pirate you come across. Wouldn't be so much of a power trading route anymore.
But realistically each house prob'ly doesn't have enough manpower to police this. And there would be many inocent newbie traders getting blown up for not being aware of the tax.

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|Ashes and Draya's Epic Adventure|Ashes "Nighthawk" Yotaka|Nightfall|Eva Jones|
[5:50:49 PM] JakeSG (William Darkmoor) says: I like you, Ashes. You're more cynical than God.

[Derkylos]

Wouldn't stop dia-niob traders, as they don't use the "official" borders...

Would make a lot more people turn to "smuggling" (exploiting jump hole routes, even when their trader wouldn't know about them in RP (*imagines a Bowex trader running through Omega-11 to avoid the border tax...*))

Would result in trading only occuring during the "dead" times (people would only trade when no police/military presence)

What action are the lawfuls gonna take if the trader dosn't pay up? Hmm? The LN blows up a Kishiro vessel, and I guarantee you there will be all kinds of diplomatic mess to untangle...

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[hribek]

Actually I think it's fun. If you don't pay taxes, the lawfuls will simply turn their backs on you. They don't need any admin permission to let you be eaten by pirates.

As opposed to Mercenaries and Freelancers they won't escort you along your entire way, but you could "hire" the local authorities to patrol a certain location ... or perhaps a route you're currently using - as far as their borders go.

With the crime on the rise, the demand for lawful ships is increasing. Lone traders going through pirate-infested areas will simply not be having a good time.

You know, this could add some extra juice to the otherwise boring lawful duties.

Pay your own government today! Make them patrol and not just sit at one spot!

EDIT:

Another angle ... some lawfuls that envy the traders their income might actually begin to like them. There could be some tax-payer hall of fame - or extra bonuses for regular supporters of the House.

[Elvin]

In RP - It is good and realistic idea. But Houses have to offer protection for the tax, what they currently do not do.

In your realty - Everyone turns into "smuggler", trading only in hours with noone online, a lot of flame, a lot of hatred for houses and tax collectors.

And if trader refuses... then what? Navy, police, etc will kill him where he stands? EDIT: You have aswered that. Well, I got never received help in fact... so nothing changes, hehe. " Ah, help, there is a terrorist comming to me" Navy: " Haha, unlucky you."

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I buy things I don't want to make an impression on people I don't like.

[spec]

Well, houses are offering protection even now, for free ...
If Trader tax has to work, it should be for imports and not for exports... There shouldn't be tax between systems of the same nation - ever heard of customs charging you for leaving the country ?

Protection should not be provided as an additional for paying tax - protection of space is in 'normal' rp of a house police/military. The tax maybe used for funding it though.

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<span style="font-family:Century Gothic">Spec - Independent Trader</span>
Small Transport - Hauling without earning

Current Status: Inactive - Too Much Work and Travel

[hribek]

The tax maybe used for funding it though.

Yep, that's the point. Or one of them.

[Maggoty]

Ok hold onto to your ponies here. (i.e.- I've had some alkemehal)

Some of you are of the death and doomsday vector and others the spices and everything nice vector.

This is an awesome idea, but it won't solve everything.

Pro's/Con's as I see them in a fair and impartial manner as I can muster. (which your free to question)

Counter arguements for each point in red.

Pro's-
1. Will fund Higher class Navy and police ships. Ever heard of the police NOT responding with overwhelming force in a bad situation in your country? This whole OMG Police Caps everywhere isn't IMO as far fetched as some think.

Many people believe the Police should not have cap ships, they say they are too expensive, have too much power for the state to trust them, or have other disagreements with the idea.

2. Will provide some more reality, and lawful traders will take this into account in thier expectations of income for the run. If this is added, maybe we can get the Admin to raise prices in select areas depending onwhere tariff's are or are not.

Some player don't want more reality they come here to get away from reality

3. I've never beleived in smuggler's ID's they don't advertise thier presence, and this system would go more towards them not advertising thier presence. Imagine someone with a smuggler's ID pops out the gate with a GB there scanning. Bad ju ju eh?

Obviously some people like the way it is and beleive that smugglers would be on a "watch list" anyway and this is simply the implementation of such a watch list.

4. The fact that the GB's collecting tariff's will not always be on is just another factor to take into account, are you a lawful trader willing to support Law enforcement along your routes or are you unwilling to support Law enforcement for whatever reason?

5. The GB's should absolutely destroy anyone attempting to trade without paying tariffs. IRL they just wouldn't allow you to dock, since that isn't an option here we get to up the ante. Know that when you come into a House's territory you are abiding by thier laws AND your own. All current International law reflects this IRL.

See point 1 in Cons

6. Trading becomes more profitable with companies that can assign you juicy routes and pay monthly tariff premiums for thier ships.

Trader's are in it for money baby, the less people they have to pay the more they make!

Ok the opposite. NOTE- I reserve the right to add any points to either side as I think of/remember them. (i.e. once again I wouldn't be driving if I were me.)

1. This absolutely provides Casus Belli if states are not properly communicating via diplomatic channels.

Any good diplomatic RP will involve atleast one version's worth of diplomatic talks before declaring war or closing a border. If you can't resovle something in that amount of time then maybe you have other issues or have other motives?

2. There will be traders who use the off hours to avoid paying tariffs.

There will also be Pirates who use the off hours to make money off those traders.

3. Smuggling gets harder as Police patrols are given a reason to "find" and patrol the ares of Jumpholes.

Smugglers's may start more hiring protection...

4.Trading gets harder on the independant trader.

Factions grow stronger as independant traders realize it is in thier best interest to be in one.

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I like where this is going, I support the idea, becuase it helps along some other ideas such as actual House leadership postions assigned by the Admins. And thereafter actual discontents with House Leadership actually having a reason to RP as a unlawful...


Also



Muwahahahahahahahaahahahahaahahahahahaha

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Need something Blownup, Killed, or just plain destroyed? Forget the Marines, Call the 101st.

[Friday]

It would also open up the possibility of lawful corruption.

Corrupt police could take personal kickbacks for not collecting taxes to be passed onto the treasury, or letting smugglers through.

Too much black-and-white RP with the lawfuls, lets get some shades of grey into it!

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[AceofSpades]

this is an excellent idea and my thought about the pay system...

10x your cargo hold.

Granted, on an advanced train that is only 50,000 credits. That makes it reasonable for the traders, but if all traders coming through the gates are levied this 10x amount it would easily generate at the very least 500k an hour for a stationed ship which is reasonable. I vote this is an excellent idea, it may not be easy to completely enforce but we could allow it. So at the very least when the LN or such is running four members and there are no pirates around they could station at the Jumpgates and collect some income. It's reasonable within RP and any trader who says paying out 50k from your advanced train (and yes itd be only 32k for all these fireflys... such a small number) to support the local navy is absolutely uncle scrooge.

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[5:57:11 PM] InfernalTater (Lewis) [Formerly TLI-Inferno]:meanwhile, Aces 'I don't always miss my destinations, but when I do, I'm on the other side of house space.'

Seriously nerf Junkers.

Shoot to Thrill