BHG and Core ID re-drafts

[carlabrams]

I prefer to think of the Bounty Hunters as a company, than a police force.

I think Ath was being slightly sarcastic with his comment, but I could be wrong. (Probably not - but those of us who regularly play bounty hunters are used to the generic interpretation as being auxiliary police.)

Of course, at the same time, in all of the house spaces, if the duly appointed government forces involved do ASK us for help, we'll give it.

Derk, there was a LOT of discussion both in Skype and on the forums about the ID issue. One of the biggest issues was that - boiling it down to the essence - pirates wanted all hunters to be neutered. Also don't forget that this was before the S/D (Ath, me, and our crew) merged with the Core (Tic and his compadres) to form the new and improved BHG| / BHG|Core.

That's another reason why we're trying to make the ID's actually fit the reality of gameplay. As the admins have stated in the past, we can't 'restrict' cap ship purchases and/or roleplay of the indies that buy our ships. But if we make the ID's reflect how a hunter should be played - which is NOT as the Sirius police, but as (effectively) paid assassins. (Since the game mechanics don't allow us to 'capture' our enemies, per se.)

And actually, Night, there's a lot more resources behind the Core than just the actions of the regular BHG. But that's not for this post... :cool:

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Sentient Machine Alliance

[Athenian]

These ID changes are not really about how any people RP the BHG but rather how the ID can suit the faction that has a storyline that is quite different from vanilla FL. The clear distinction between BHG and BHG Core is something that I think the ID's should reflect.

The ID's of nearly every other faction are easily understandable and less verbose.

It also happens that if you'd take the time to read the bounty boards, you'd see that Hunters get paid bounties for interdicting contraband. So it IS in their interest to stop the contraband trade, and they DO make money from it, therefore your argument is invalid.
On the Core ID, you need to change your proposal to reflect that cap ships ONLY are restricted to the Outer Reaches.
Original:
* Cruisers and Battleships can only operate within the Omicron, Omega and Sigma systems but fighters, bombers, freighters, prison liners or gunboats may operate anywhere in Sirius that the Bounty Hunter ID permits.
Your revision:
* Can only operate within the Omicron, Omega and Sigma systems.
My Suggestion:
* Destroyers, Cruisers, and Battleships can only operate within the Omicron, Omega, and Sigma systems. All other ships may operate normally anywhere in Sirius.

Also, there recently was a post where the definition of Freighter was bumped up to 650 cargo. Since the AT only has 525 cargo, I would think that would, by definition now, make it a Freighter and not a Transport.

I don't think Core ID ships should be everywhere, hence the restriction on z.o.i. for all Core ships.

The AT is now 800 cargo. In the ID change threads before 4.85 came out, I thought it was pretty much a given that the BHG would get access to the AT, and that isn't in the current ID's.

I still favour having the scanning for contraband removed from the ID - it would provide a lifeline for police factions.

It got boosted in this version, Agmen.

Aye, but was still Transport class in the last version.

I would prefer the normal BHG ID remains unchanged. One of the reasons this was a problem in 4.84 is because the normal ID could use capships, which allowed the player to hunt pirates in fighters/bombers/gunboats with a battleship - that doesnt happen anymore, as the biggest ship the normal BHG ID allows is the orca gunboat.

The original ID doesn't fully reflect rule 6.15.

I think the idea is that no Core ships should be running around collecting bounties in the houses, they are needed to conduct the war in the lonelycrons, be they caps or fighters.
Maybe allow transports into the houses to re-supply the fleet?
The only proposed text change in the regular Bounty Hunter ID was the one pertaining to the approach to contraband. No capital ships were mentioned.

That is the idea. Core ID Guild ships don't come into the Houses. That's not to say regular BHG ID ships can't go into where the Core operates to re-supply.

I prefer to think of the Bounty Hunters as a company, than a police force. Bounty Hunters know full well the location of many older unlawful stations, such as Buffalo and Alcatraz. NPC patrols can be seen there all the time. If they were a police force, they could easily muster the strength to wipe those bases out, especially with their allies. So why don't they? I'll give you a small hint.
$

Okay, I lied, that was a big hint. Yes, the Bounty Hunters want credits, and nothing more. Why? To fuel their campaign in the Omicrons of course. If the Bounty Hunters wiped out pirates, they'd lose their main source of income. Bad move.
Since this has nothing to do with ID changes... I'll stop there.

Aye, it has nothing to do with the ID changes. But I'll indulge you - it's a question of priorities, and parity of treatment for other factions. The idea is that crime is so widespread, but also so diffuse when it occurs on an interplanetary level that even keeping it at a manageable level becomes a massive drain.

I think Ath was being slightly sarcastic with his comment, but I could be wrong. (Probably not - but those of us who regularly play bounty hunters are used to the generic interpretation as being auxiliary police.)
Of course, at the same time, in all of the house spaces, if the duly appointed government forces involved do ASK us for help, we'll give it.
Derk, there was a LOT of discussion both in Skype and on the forums about the ID issue. One of the biggest issues was that - boiling it down to the essence - pirates wanted all hunters to be neutered. Also don't forget that this was before the S/D (Ath, me, and our crew) merged with the Core (Tic and his compadres) to form the new and improved BHG| / BHG|Core.
That's another reason why we're trying to make the ID's actually fit the reality of gameplay. As the admins have stated in the past, we can't 'restrict' cap ship purchases and/or roleplay of the indies that buy our ships. But if we make the ID's reflect how a hunter should be played - which is NOT as the Sirius police, but as (effectively) paid assassins. (Since the game mechanics don't allow us to 'capture' our enemies, per se.)
And actually, Night, there's a lot more resources behind the Core than just the actions of the regular BHG. But that's not for this post... :cool:

I wasn't being sarcastic. The BHG is an auxilliary police force and that is reflected in the lore in game. With the ship restrictions and the bounty requirements in place, it can and does operate as such. There has been give and take - ship restrictions, bounty requirement in exchange for relatively wide z.o.i. Still paid killers though. The key word is auxulliary - the police factions set the bounties on the forums, but should still deal with contraband.

The Core and BHG ID's should be very much different - there should be little possibility of overlap in duties. More importantly, each provides plenty of opportunities for RP for each ID. The Core ID is the one most in need of trimming, in my opinion, and I think recent practice in game is giving a more clear picture of what is feasible.


Cheers for input.

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Former member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
Discovery Community Forum Rules

[Camtheman Of Freelancer4Ever]

if the Core and the Guild are two different organizations, why isnt there a Bounty Hunters Guild Gaurd ID?
its a bit of a mouthful, similar to Indipendent Miners Guild Gaurd, but it works :P

Anyways, I dont even know what the BHGG Id would say...

[Athenian]

if the Core and the Guild are two different organizations, why isnt there a Bounty Hunters Guild Gaurd ID?
its a bit of a mouthful, similar to Indipendent Miners Guild Gaurd, but it works :P

Anyways, I dont even know what the BHGG Id would say...

Em......there is a Guard ID. It's the Core ID. It's reproduced in full in my original post, along with the proposed revision. This was the whole point - the BHG Guard is the Core, and serves a very different function in the Discovery universe - i.e. not just sitting in a Guard system.

What do Guard ID's read like? http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=ddprs3c3_1gfx7dwhr

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Former member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
Discovery Community Forum Rules

[Tenacity]

The only proposed text change in the regular Bounty Hunter ID was the one pertaining to the approach to contraband. No capital ships were mentioned.

No, the change was the whole "you cant attack someone without a forum-posted bounty" crap that came up months ago. I honestly dont think that the normal BHG ID should require a posted bounty, as players with that ID are now restricted to gunboat and lower craft types. The issue in 4.84 was that BHG players would go around wtfpwning lonely pirates with battleships, that isnt a problem now.

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[Camtheman Of Freelancer4Ever]

Posting forum bounty rule will signifficantly decrease the BHG's member list... At least thats what i would think, btw tenacity, you need to be on xfire more.

[Derkylos]

No, the change was the whole "you cant attack someone without a forum-posted bounty" crap that came up months ago. I honestly dont think that the normal BHG ID should require a posted bounty, as players with that ID are now restricted to gunboat and lower craft types. The issue in 4.84 was that BHG players would go around wtfpwning lonely pirates with battleships, that isnt a problem now.

Uhh...Hunters (non-core) still shouldn't be initiating an engagement unless there is monetary rewards for doing so. The issue isn't to prevent cap-whores, but to reflect the RP status, or?...

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[Tenacity]

Uhh...Hunters (non-core) still shouldn't be initiating an engagement unless there is monetary rewards for doing so. The issue isn't to prevent cap-whores, but to reflect the RP status, or?...

but why disclude situations of in-game payment for bounties at the time?

As an example, say a trader is passing through the magellan system from bretonia to liberty. He gets pirated by a lane hacker, and there's a bounty hunter at freeport 4. Why should the bounty hunter not be able to take payment from the trader to kill the hacker, or at least run him off?

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[Athenian]

No, the change was the whole "you cant attack someone without a forum-posted bounty" crap that came up months ago. I honestly dont think that the normal BHG ID should require a posted bounty, as players with that ID are now restricted to gunboat and lower craft types. The issue in 4.84 was that BHG players would go around wtfpwning lonely pirates with battleships, that isnt a problem now.

That "crap" was an Admin notice. It's in rule 6.15. I'm proposing making the rules and ID less confusing. Either a BHG ID player can attack unlawfuls everywhere without a forum-posted bounty or he can't - but either way, the ID should reflect the situation.

Posting forum bounty rule will signifficantly decrease the BHG's member list... At least thats what i would think, btw tenacity, you need to be on xfire more.

What I said above. The current situation is that there has to be.

Uhh...Hunters (non-core) still shouldn't be initiating an engagement unless there is monetary rewards for doing so. The issue isn't to prevent cap-whores, but to reflect the RP status, or?...

It was originally introduced because of mercenaries, believe it or not. The fact that it has a knock-on effect on BHG players was incidental.

but why disclude situations of in-game payment for bounties at the time?

As an example, say a trader is passing through the magellan system from bretonia to liberty. He gets pirated by a lane hacker, and there's a bounty hunter at freeport 4. Why should the bounty hunter not be able to take payment from the trader to kill the hacker, or at least run him off?

Because it ends up being abused, I imagine.

Whatever about allowing that freedom for the regular BHG ID, there is no way it can be in the Core ID.

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Former member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
Discovery Community Forum Rules

[El Nino]

That's a damn good proposal...*Agrees 100%*

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