Players used a CLOAK to spy on enemies which is perfectly in roleplay.... got warnings/sanctions and their RP deleted?
Which member of staff is on an egopowertrip to enable the sanctioning of roleplay based actions?
The issue was not that players were spied on, it's that the people spying on them were doing so in a location that they had no way of knowing about inRP, and then made a report about that facility existing inRP. If everything about this situation stayed the same with the exception that Lichtenfelde was a POB then there would have not been a single issue.
Same reason why Buffalo Base and other unlawful bases for example are not known to lawfuls. This more or less simplifies to powergaming, where the location of a base normally not known by a character/faction is RPed as known anyways.
A common rule of thumb is that infectees aren't solely due to their "unknown" IFF; they may as well be undercover intelligence agents to their eyes. Only if there are red flags (such as having nomad equipment or talking in telepathy) should they be appropriately RPed as infectees.
In any case, the sanction was due to powergaming, and cloaked ships are wholly unrelated to that matter.
(01-13-2025, 09:34 PM)monmarfori Wrote: Same reason why Buffalo Base and other unlawful bases for example are not known to lawfuls. This more or less simplifies to powergaming, where the location of a base normally not known by a character/faction is RPed as known anyways.
A common rule of thumb is that infectees aren't solely due to their "unknown" IFF; they may as well be undercover intelligence agents to their eyes. Only if there are red flags (such as having nomad equipment or talking in telepathy) should they be appropriately RPed as infectees.
In any case, the sanction was due to powergaming, and cloaked ships are wholly unrelated to that matter.
Players used a CLOAK to spy on enemies which is perfectly in roleplay.... got warnings/sanctions and their RP deleted?
Which member of staff is on an egopowertrip to enable the sanctioning of roleplay based actions?
The issue was not that players were spied on, it's that the people spying on them were doing so in a location that they had no way of knowing about inRP, and then made a report about that facility existing inRP. If everything about this situation stayed the same with the exception that Lichtenfelde was a POB then there would have not been a single issue.
If you read the description of the Warning, you'll see you're wrong.
Lichtenfelde was never mentioned by name in the RP. That was not the point (to claim the discovery of a hidden base). The point of the RP was to follow the Noth ships to where they dock and if that is a base that has nomads protecting it, then Noth prove to be infected. So yes, the issue was indeed the use of cloak.
Metagaming, Powergaming. People use them interchangeably and the point remains the same. Whether its defined as one or the other, the fact remains that content presenting itself as either term is against the rules. Wild discord had a very large discussion (with staff present and also part of the conversation). This whole cloaking issue is far less about the why, the when, the where. Its about the How.
Someone logs in, launches, cloaks. They don't interact with the people, they don't do anything other than follow them around/camp them out at their base while remaining invisible. This has no counter-play. And before you throw at me about a cloak disruptor. disruptor type 3 is 9k 10k range, and mountable on Battleships and Battlecruisers. Disruptor type 2 is 6k 9k range and mountable on GBs and Cruisers. Disruptor type 1 is 3k 8k range and Snub mountable. Like the cloaks that they're undoubtedly made to counter. Someone sat at 7k on a snub cloak while observing any wild is never ever going to get to counter-play this, even if they go and buy the cloak disruptors that they can mount.
Its possible that someone can counterplay this kinda move, using a snub cloak disruptor. Barely, but yes. There is. Let's also note down the absurdity that it should be mandatory to watch the player list to see "Some.Random.Name, System: ????", because that's also both technically Metagaming and against the rules.
I saw the original post, and the image contents that were there. There were Three images in the initial post within a spoiler labelled "Noth Infection" (if memory serves me correctly on the title of the spoiler), that was then laughed off by another RPer that the base wasn't even remotely interesting to them, no concrete evidence that it was alien in any way (of which this person should be congratulated on decent roleplay conduct). Of which after was then edited to insert an additional screenshot that was an almost point blank close up of the "Maybe Nomad Power Source" Which they did not collect from in game, nor during the encounter, due to the activity around and in the area of the system.
Not only that. But the person used the fact that the ambient NPCs, that are SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to NOT ENGAGE ANYONE were "Not Attacking Them, So They Must Be Infected". Yeah. Smort move eh?
Personally I have no issue with anyone trying things to expose Covert Operators of the Wilde, be they Official or Indie. I have a problem with poor use of something that was specifically done to get back at the multiple clashes these Wild Boys have had with the various Omicron Organisations. Notice that this is also another "Staff Vote" scenario where people are dissatisfied with the outcome of a VR that was sent against their actions.
Being a Dick is rather easy. Especially when you are doing it to get back simply because you cannot beat them in game. Its disappointing to see that people are fighting a corner of a VR that simply resulted with a slap on the wrist and a telling off, rather than an actually substantial action. If people too are willing to quit over being slapped once over something that they were merely being corrected on what they shouldn't have done, then it kinda also speaks about their real life character/mindset. Not to mention the fact that their position is that they're willing to leave over the whole telling off, rather than accept the consequences of a staff decision. Like. Really? Over being told off from one adult to another?
We are at a similar point with the whole "[STAFF]: WARNING" thread, that people cannot take a sanction over incidents that have happened. People need to stop feeling hurt over sanction threads popping up against them. We play a game, we all make mistakes. Its part of a process. Called "Learning." It won't kill you, I promise!
Edit: I have been informed that the ranges i quoted for cloak disruptors is actually wrong. I lay corrected. 10k/9k/8k respectively aparrently. So theres that. Theres also this lovely edit notification telling you what happened, and rather than just edit out the old incorrect info and hide it like it never happened, I have left in the incorrect data to show.
From my side, kudos for taking the time to present a logical point of view. It's easier to throw random words and insults around instead of making a case and I think you did a great job at presenting your case.
Also let me present my appreciation for the RP Noth Squad is involved in. It looks awesome. Whomever is behind it, keep up the good work.
Now let me disagree with a few points. InRP, DTR was attacked several times by Noth ships. It makes absolutely sense to try and figure out who these new threats to the Xeno Relics trade and the trade going through Sigmas (both being locations where DTR was engaged by these Noths) are, what is their agenda l, etc. Why was PLF involved in this? Beats me, actually. Could the pilot that followed the Noth people document his surroundings better? Maybe, yes. He was fooled by the impression that quoting the info card of the station is enough evidence and did not go and photographed the station from all possible angles because firstly, as said multiple times, inRP that would have been impossible and secondly, because he had nothing to gain from it. He got the information about the identity of the Noth ships and he tried to get out of the situation as fast as possible. And do you want to say that inRP, the NPC ships around Lichtenfelde would have engaged the Noth pilots? Please.... the comment that nomad ships flocked around this mysterious base and did not engage both the base itself and the Noth pilots is totally inRP and should absolutely be used as evidence about the nature of the station and if the Noth pilots.
Then you mentioned this being fueled by clashes with the Wilds. Actually, no. The intent behind this RP was to find out why is Pheonix so determined to destroy the Theta Treaty and Noth guys were just the ooRP unexpected twist to the story.
You're claiming people are willing to quit over being slapped once on something that they shouldn't have done.... You're wrong multiple times in the same sentence. Firstly, you did not show why this shouldn't have been done. I gave you reasons why inRP Corsairs had more than enough reasons to investigate Noth. Secondly, people are willing to quit because they are tired of being the pinata of the community. Is DTR mining in Earhart? Let's log BDM or Rote Front or KNF or LNS and destroy them. Are they mining XRs? Let's destroy them. Are they doing an encounter in Theta? Let's wait for them to finish the encounter and explode them on their way back. Are people actively ruining the RolePlay (be it good or bad) they did with the Theta Treaty? Well, if they try to fight their antagonizers, let's report them and get the RP invalidated. When you encounters rocks at any turn, you tend to get bored of being the laugh stock of the community.
Lastly, we all make mistakes. Absolutely. But there are certain people that purposely harass DTR every opportunity they have and they don't consider this to be a mistake. As such, this stops being a game and turns into .... survival instead of something that should have been fun? So, yes, people quit.
And yes, this is completely relevant to how can cloaks be used against people that showed to be not once, but at least twice your inRP enemies.
There should just be a rule that cloaked players can not enforce roleplay consequences.
If you want to roleplay the dicovery of an in-roleplay hidden base you'd need to decloak, in the presence of a hostile combat ship, then survive getting close enough to screenshot it, and survive getting away with the data.
And the hidden bases in question should have very beefy NPC patrols that delete hostile players very fast.
(01-14-2025, 06:31 AM)LuckyOne Wrote: There should just be a rule that cloaked players can not enforce roleplay consequences.
If you want to roleplay the dicovery of an in-roleplay hidden base you'd need to decloak, in the presence of a hostile combat ship, then survive getting close enough to screenshot it, and survive getting away with the data.
And the hidden bases in question should have very beefy NPC patrols that delete hostile players very fast.
![[Image: eHPLi2z.gif]](http://i.imgur.com/eHPLi2z.gif)
![[Image: LBD7JlK.png]](https://imgur.com/LBD7JlK.png)
![[Image: Mt9PRRk.png]](https://i.imgur.com/Mt9PRRk.png)