1st shot: 8730 plant remaining 2nd shot: 12 seconds later, 0 plant remaining All shots: 17 second intervals.
BShip Shield: 460000 capacity 4800 regen/s
- 28800 regen in 6s
- 57600 in 12
- 81600 in 17
Bombers synchronize fire. Time starts as of first impact on shields.
1st shot: 460000 132000 = 328000 2nd shot: 385600 132000 = 253600 3rd shot: 335200 132000 = 203200 Shield loss total: 50400 4th shot: 152800 5th shot: 102400 6th shot: 52000 7th shot: 1600 8th shot: Shields fail, Osiris takes 132000 damage to hull.
To recap: It has taken two civilian bombers 114 seconds to collapse the Osiris shield and SNAC the hull, under completely ideal circumstances. One minute, 54 seconds.
Osiris Hull (x3)
700000 (x3) = 2,100,000 HP
12 second shield regen time, two SNACs to re-collapse. Bombers begin staggering fire to 8.5s apart to score hits on hull. Every third SNAC hits hull, approx. intervals of 26 seconds between SNAC hits on hull.
[color=#33FFFF]Eight minutes, 22 seconds total. Give or take. If the Civilian Bombers sit there and pound away, the Osiris is AFK and there are absolutely zero interruptions.
How long do most bomber vs Battleships last? Significantly longer than that. Ergo, theoretical maths is fail maths and absolutely useless in anything other than bashing whichever ship/ship class you hate most, in your case the bomber.
' Wrote:How long do most bomber vs Battleships last? Significantly longer than that. Ergo, theoretical maths is fail maths and absolutely useless in anything other than bashing whichever ship/ship class you hate most, in your case the bomber.
I was hoping someone would take eight minutes as the magical length of time it takes two rocs to kill an Osiris.
That's assuming the Osiris does not regen, does not shoot back, that the SNAC doesn't misfire, that the SNAC doesn't miss, and that one or two fighters are not even around to drive off the bombers.
Put me in a fighter, I'm not a stellar pilot but I have a great grip on tactics. I will ruin a bomber's day if he is not focused on fighting me off. If he is, then he's not hitting the cap.
One thing I forgot to add to practical discussions. When a bomber is fighting gunships or larger, with the average loadout they have the power to instakill the bomber. Not even talking a Mortar to the face here. A full salvo of Primaries or Defensives or whatever will instakill the bomber.
When we account for armour using Rudo's calculations, it becomes a much longer fight. If they happen to be lucky enough to have a cap 8, your SNAC's impacts leave the feeling that you're only doing pixelhealth damage. Using your maths, it'd be roughly 30 minutes for two bombers to down a Battleship, yes? I'm sure the Rocs would slip before then, and any competent fighter could make their life miserable even without the missiles I find most escorts spamming.
Bombers are an extremely difficult target for a fighter in the right hands. Someone said earlier that you should hit them with a razor.
I'm an average to poor fighter pilot and I mount a Hornet CD (cheapskate) but why should I need a razor?
Why can't my guns do the job?
I'm in a fighter afterall. The very ship designed to stop bombers.
Why do I have to use the fighters equivalent of a SNAC, which was designed as an anti-capital weapon to bring down a small ship?
Bringing escorts should mean something. Make bombers less agile, a little less hull and give cruisers better flak abilities (but not battleships. Battleships should be cap/station killers).
Incidentally, when a bomber is taken to a small ship combat through choice, that should be ringing alarm bells somewhere.
One other thing for the statistic mad among you, some bombers have five forward firing guns and often mount dual razors. That is not an anti-cap set up. Thats a bomber designed to beat fighters and your single razor will have to get very lucky against a ship which turns almost as well as you and has a a similar silhouette.
The whole imbalance comes down to one simple fact:
(Most) Fighter pilots cannot kill bombers before those bombers kill a battleship, or even a cruiser.
The capship is not designed to dodge and evade, it's only defense is absorbing damage until those escorts kill the attackers. If the escorts are incapable of finishing that task quickly enough, the cap is going to die, there's no way around it.
Now, as has been said, the 'heavy bombers' like the fafnir and barghest can be killed quickly enough by fighters, because they are not as capable of dodging fire from fighter-type craft, and due to slower sped and larger size they are more vulnerable to cap fire as well.
The other bombers though... they have too much agility, too much survivability, and too much firepower.
There's really two things we can do, at least in my mind, to resolve this situation:
1. Nerf Bombers. Everyone hates this idea, because... well, everyone flies one. At least, it seems like for as long as I can remember bombers have been the dominant shipclass on this server, and are as all-around effective as you can get.
The idea would be to take every 'light' bomber (basically, all 'normal' bombers right now) and reduce their armor to fighter-like levels, reduce their power generator to be barely capable of firing a single supernova or nova at a time, and nerf them down to a single torpedo slot instead of two. Basically, turn them into heavy fighters that can tote some anti-cap weaponry.
Over time, the plan would be to convert or replace these with heavy bombers like the fafnir or barghest.
2. Buff Fighters. The bomber pilots still seem to hate this idea, but tough luck, something needs to change.
My plan would be to restrict fighters to class 9 guns only, but make bombers ONLY able to use class 10 guns. That way we can keep class 10 gun balance like it is now (600-700 M/S projectile speed, high damage, low refire), and rebalance fighter-specific guns (class 9's, primarily) to have much higher projectile speed and refire rate.
If we gave fighters the ability to use 1000m/s or so projectile speed guns, they would have a much easier time killing bombers in an acceptable amount of time. The other side effect this has is making fighter vs fighter battles shorter, so we dont end up with hour-long furballs every time an event is planned.
' Wrote:One thing I forgot to add to practical discussions. When a bomber is fighting gunships or larger, with the average loadout they have the power to instakill the bomber. Not even talking a Mortar to the face here. A full salvo of Primaries or Defensives or whatever will instakill the bomber.
When we account for armour using Rudo's calculations, it becomes a much longer fight. If they happen to be lucky enough to have a cap 8, your SNAC's impacts leave the feeling that you're only doing pixelhealth damage. Using your maths, it'd be roughly 30 minutes for two bombers to down a Battleship, yes? I'm sure the Rocs would slip before then, and any competent fighter could make their life miserable even without the missiles I find most escorts spamming.
So your solution to this is quite simple. Everyone should have a cap.8 and that's that?
Really now , that's a very unrealistic argument. Someone mentioned that a bomber is killed instantly from a salvo of primary turrets. I'm going to say that it doesn't work , even if the bomber lacks a skilled pilot , a complete salvo doesn't kill him , because the turrets themselves cannot hit such a small target , all at once. Some of them simply pass by the bomber , but yes , they do deal significant damage , when they hit.
Now , let me explain why people are unhappy when it comes down to bombers and their balancing. First of all , there are a lot of different bombers , all having a similar load out of weapons , but most are very , very different from one another when it comes to PvP. Battleships , although quite a few and very different from one another , at first glimpse on their stats , are basicly all the same when it comes defending themselves and attacking one another. There is a very minor difference , one which rarely has an effect on the battle. Now , since bombers are very different , often the fact that two or three of them stand above all others in terms of PvP performance , gives every bomber a bad name. Those few , not so well balanced ships , are the so called "light bombers" , but honestly I see nothing light about them since they can fire a SNAC like every other ship of that type.
The second problem is that , unlike Battleships and Battle cruisers , bombers live a "double life" without sacrificing anything , meaning that they are good against the capital ship and the fighter classes at the same time , without the need of a different load out and what not. Capitals don't have that option , either you go the anti-capital ship way , which you should , or you load your ship with ridiculous weapons , which are highly un-effective and try to act as a large fly swatter. Some people will say that you can go for a mixed load out , but all who've tried know that doing that means that your ships can't handle both capitals and bombers.
3. Use less caps. - People who use caps as their primary ships hate this because it makes them feel less manly. Everybody else loves it because it means less imba fights.
4. Gain some skill. - Double standard here. People tend to say it to those less skilled than themselves when they whine about getting owned, but then they use the very same excuses to the people who own them. Oh well.
As I said, a full salvo already insta's bombers. Reducing the hull and nerfing agility means not only are they easier to hit, but it will take much less to wipe them out. It may be possible if you give them enough cargo to mount a higher armour upgade or raise their b/b limit, but then we're getting fiddly and the people will still whine about those more skilled than them.
Why longer fighter battles? They're enjoyable as is. I much prefer perseverance, skill or luck to simply holding the trigger for a few seconds every now and then.
At the MR/Guns thing, guns do the same job as the MR, it's just the MR does it in one shot then needs to regen, whilst the guns need a more consistent fire but can maintain said fire longer. Any bomber who's mounting dual MR's is meat for gunships/gunboats/capships, seeing as he loses his ability to kill them effectively.
The primary reason Bombers are the ship of choice for many players? Survival trait brought on after a month or two of being capwhored left, right and center. Some may do it because of the ability to instakill, but generally these people are skilled enough that the result would be the same if they used a fighter.
Took me and another Pytho (and a Nyx that was drawing the fire) about 10 minutes to take down a Sarissa Cap 6.
And yes, bombers should take more of a beating from fighters, as currently one bomber can dodge 1 or 2 fighters(if he is good) and deliver painfull Supernova's to any capital ship unlucky to be in the fight
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