Balance

[Dab]

Kane, I've de-weaponed a GB with missile turrets in half the time it would take to destroy it. Same would work against cruisers, BSs are different. And the only way to 'adjust' to the KNF's 'tactic' (like it could be called such) is to leave fighters behind. If that became the case, I'd leave the server.

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[thekillerppodl]

all SF, SA, or KNF does is missile spam

you making it sound like all SF do it i don't because
i don't see any point in it i like dieing lets me make wonderful stories of going down with flames and all that stuff .
and the cycles thing is true it's the same on the ground as well
was infantry then tanks and now air power but there are still ways to counter air power or which ever part of the cycle it's on

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imganie something deep and life changing put here.....
and then forget it

[BestFlyerHere]

Dab, I think Kane has got you on this one. However they may have splash damage, they cannot even hit your shields if it's an all-missile KNF GB.

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I am a long-absent Supreme Commander, Executive Commander, Grand Admiral, Fleet Admiral, and Captain in the mighty Hellfire Legion. I have returned, and am on an urgent mission from Drake Thastus to return the Legion to its former glory, and to claim the galaxy for its own. Only then will I be able to rest.


RP Story (Still deciding whether or not to finish)

http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...=5439&st=20

[Malaclypse 666]

I appreciate all the opinions and comments made here.

Now, I also see the "Curse of Isness" and that ol' Debil Dogma rearing its ugly head.

In particular, Dab, please resubmit or edit your statements of "fact", so that they're reflected as your opinions. When you start telling the community what the "facts" are, it would help if you included a disclaimer. They are facts in no sense of the word; they are only one person's opinion.

Just as this is merely my opinion.

Leaving the server is your choice, if the "facts" don't fit your reality.

Ship loadouts are individual choices. We in the KNF recognize that, and will not dictate to our own members or to any other faction what is "appropriate". That action, as Nadir has pointed out, seems to me an unnatural attempt to control or regulate the evolution of events and circumstances. In my humble opinion, this would be a huge detriment.

Also, in my opinion, your bringing SA and SF into this argument is just a bit whiney for someone of your supposed intelligence.

You have the same options anyone else does to adjust and evolve with circumstances, as Kane pointed out.
Perhaps you should explore those options, and then voice an opinion, rather than quoting unsubstantiated "facts".

Thanks for listening,
Mal

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[Spacewolf]

Might I make a small point here?

You people are forgetting a very simple fact; missiles as they are do -nothing- against captial ships.

Thats not true it completly stops cap ships from being able to hit the other ship at the turrents target the missles rather than the ship ive wasted an entire block of energy trying to hit them while they could hit me just fine even flak turrents are no use since they just carnt make the contact if any one has a tactic against this type of missle spaming that means that you carnt hit them plz tell me

[Dab]

Dab, I think Kane has got you on this one. However they may have splash damage, they cannot even hit your shields if it's an all-missile KNF GB.

I've taken down GB shields with missiles only from my Talarca. Missiles will take it down. Especially if you have a weapon targeted, as the missile immunity doesn't work if the gun is hit. Shield goes down to missiles, then guns go down. I don't know how they could not hit my shields, I'm a cruiser, and missiles can track fighters without any aiming at all. The missiles will hit the shields, and they DO do damage.

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[BestFlyerHere]

You just said that was a talarca. Now, and even moreso in the future, GB missiles will not be able to take down another GBs shield without completely running their power supply into the ground. Maybe with your cruiser missiles you could take it down, but i doubt it in another GB.

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I am a long-absent Supreme Commander, Executive Commander, Grand Admiral, Fleet Admiral, and Captain in the mighty Hellfire Legion. I have returned, and am on an urgent mission from Drake Thastus to return the Legion to its former glory, and to claim the galaxy for its own. Only then will I be able to rest.


RP Story (Still deciding whether or not to finish)

http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...=5439&st=20

[Koolmo]

Dab, your dead wrong on saying the KNF don't bring anything but fighters. The last time an SCRA ship was in kusari space, they brought 4 fighters, to fqace a fully kitted flack frigate. That didn't end so well, eventually LoTeK brought his gunboat, but the rest of them stayed in fighters.

I'm not going to comment on the armament thing, both my 'missle ships' had missles back when they sucked, and will continue to have missles once they've been changed. I'll refrain from using them for now, and won't be putting missle turrets on my other ships.

Nightfall, I assume one of those 'because we can' factions was the SCRA, and I admit, we were. However, times and leaders have changed, and we ONLY use IMG, Civilian, Zoner, and Corsair ships, with a couple folks flying liberty ships becasue thats what they deserted with, and we've staged ingame attacks on liberty shipyards to explain those vessels.

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<span style="color:#FFFF00">&quot;General Solo, is your strike team assembled?&quot;
&quot;Barely, they're pretty drunk.&quot; </span>
SCRA Recruiting--SCRA Feedback--SCRA Message Dump--SCRA Faction Status

I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

[Nightfall]

Nightfall, I assume one of those 'because we can' factions was the SCRA, and I admit, we were. However, times and leaders have changed, and we ONLY use IMG, Civilian, Zoner, and Corsair ships, with a couple folks flying liberty ships becasue thats what they deserted with, and we've staged ingame attacks on liberty shipyards to explain those vessels.

In fact, no, I wasn't referring to SCRA, I meant the old CUFF (buggy Huegenots loaded with Tizonas), the =?= (those were before my time here) and the VOIDers (Sceptre and company), there were a few more individuals but those came to mind first.

About KNF fighters, I've seen them, they're all Kusari Gunboat Class:P

I appreciate all the opinions and comments made here.

Now, I also see the "Curse of Isness" and that ol' Debil Dogma rearing its ugly head.

In particular, Dab, please resubmit or edit your statements of "fact", so that they're reflected as your opinions. When you start telling the community what the "facts" are, it would help if you included a disclaimer. They are facts in no sense of the word; they are only one person's opinion.

Just as this is merely my opinion.

Leaving the server is your choice, if the "facts" don't fit your reality.

Ship loadouts are individual choices. We in the KNF recognize that, and will not dictate to our own members or to any other faction what is "appropriate". That action, as Nadir has pointed out, seems to me an unnatural attempt to control or regulate the evolution of events and circumstances. In my humble opinion, this would be a huge detriment.

Also, in my opinion, your bringing SA and SF into this argument is just a bit whiney for someone of your supposed intelligence.

You have the same options anyone else does to adjust and evolve with circumstances, as Kane pointed out.
Perhaps you should explore those options, and then voice an opinion, rather than quoting unsubstantiated "facts".

Thanks for listening,
Mal

I appreciate your statement too Mal but I'd suggest you stop using expressions like 'Debil Dogma'. Your 'grayfaceness' is appalling! You don't have any valid argument for the points you're trying to make and are just using the convenient RP as an excuse. Turning the flames on a 15 year-old will not deny the fact that you and your faction are using a bug in the game to win your battles.

Don't forget that Freelancer IS NOT Battleshiplancer or Gunboatlancer or even worse Gunboatloadeduptotheteethwithmissilesspammingthefighterslancer. Kane has a good point up to a certain degree but we can't develop new technology to counter your missile spamming until Igiss makes it and that would just be a vicious circle. As I said to Nadir, (read up - about Kraken 2). How would you feel? If I can do something about it, I won't let the fighters become obsolete, it's why I (and a lot of others) play Freelancer - to fly that Sabre.

You're not insulting only Dab's intelligence, you're insulting everyone's intelligence with this, even your own.

Now, until you get a better argument than 'because I can' stay away please and don't fan the flames or I'll lock the thread. This goes for EVERYONE - civilised discussion and valid arguments, please. And no flaming!

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If the stars should appear one night in a thousand years, how would men believe and adore and preserve for many generations the remembrance of the city of God? - from 'Nightfall' by I. Asimov
The Outcasts consider Siniestre Nube a sacred place for several reasons. Early explorers discovered a jumphole within the depths of the cloud that leads to a strange world of ringed stars and strange craft. All ships in the burrial ground are placed facing that hole to honor the Alien Spirits. - An Outcast rumor

[Craines]

I feel like the KNF is getting flamed. :(

Am I guilty of this 'missile-spamming' of which you all speak? Am I guilty of being special ham (that's what I maintain SPAM means. It is an acronym, but mine is funnier! ^_^)? Yes. To both, sadly. I AM HAM!

But really, once, long long ago, in a time now lost to server moves and new factions, I did have a gunboat with five missiles. EGADS! But did I spam? Yes. EGADS AGAIN! However, did I PvP? No. EGA...wait. What?

Not everyone equips for PvP, friends. Most PvE builds (which is what I believe missiles are. Nothing solves a problem like a metaphorical fist full o' missiles) are now being used for PvP. Is it good? Should it be changed? Can we find a happy balance?

Or shall we do as some wish, and entirely delete the missile turret, or make it so God-awful that no one would ever use it, or make it such a detriment that even equipping it would be horrible?

In my humble, not to mention biased, opinion, all good questions. The answer? We do not want cycles. We also don't want pollen, daylight savings time, waking up early, being drunk, not being able to fly without mechanical aid, having bad credit, and having to eat snapper. But does our wants have any impact? Let me tell you from personal experience, the answer is no.

A clear and resounding no, mind. What we want doesn't seem to matter much at all. The missiles are powerful. So are the Liberty Cruiser Front Cannon! Far more powerful than the Kusari Gunboat Main Cannon. And what of the Tizonas?

Lasers are spammed CONSTANTLY! Why doesn't anyone raise a fit about it? Because that is how it should be used. But does that mean someone can't get angry? Of course it doesn't. Anyone can get angry at anything.

The use of missiles will be eternal. We can only hope that Igiss, in his all-powerful, Mod-Making skills, can find a way to balance them. And note, that was actual compliments, not sarcasm.

Until then, we can only refrain from PvP...? Oh my, I've forgotten to bring my anti-stone shield. I will be stoned to death, like Magellan! For shame!

This will work out eventually. Like childbirth (which I have thankfully not experienced) we can't rush it. Except, in this case, we have swarms of evil demons that lurk in our CPUs that will jump out at night and devour us...

Or is that just me?

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