Anti Zoner Syndicate (updates on page 8)

[Jinx]

but isn t that double standards?

what is the primary attribut/characteristic of NPC zoners? - wouldn t we say that it is "neutrality"?

now - what is the primary attribut of corsairs, outcasts, gaians, nomads, the order etc. ? - would we agree to roleplay that away against the lore? ( that means not only situational - but permanently )

it sets things in motion that cannot be stopped past some point.

lets say "breaking news: - crete has been made fertile, the population is growing and flourishing!" - lore-wise ... the precious balance between the impotent outcasts ( due to cardamine ) and the starving corsairs ( due to lack of food ) is broken. - both sides being held back from growing powerful ( cause by the lore, its not so much technology that holds them back, but the small population ) vanishes.
suddenly - corsairs deploy more and more and more warriors with each generation. we get into trouble "explaining" things when we go against some basic characteristics.

but when we say "no, ... some characteristics cannot be altered" - who can tell which ones can? - certainly not "other factions" - but if any... only the faction that is concerned can alter them... and only really ... when the people with an objective view about the factions future wellfare and progression say its beneficial.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Sprolf]

Taking such important issues for granted in roleplay leads to a slew of situations where "neutrality" couldn't possibly exist due to the actions of the Zoners resting behind their iron curtain that should be a delicate balance. You can't say "we're neutral and nothing will change that," because it cuts out the most important part of Discovery - the role of people in roleplay, which is a very dynamic thing.
Some might call it "powergaming," though I won't.



Additionally, it is said that Crete no longer has such rampant issues of food shortages. Confer with Zelot on that matter, for he is the expert of all things Corsair.

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[Jinx]

yea - i know where you re coming from there... - but it simply boils down to the basic philosophical question about how much lore can be altered and how much has to stay as it is.

sure - zoners insisting on neutrality - while not acting the way are annoying. ... but the question must be asked how much player actions can alter the canon of a faction.

some time ago - the order moved away too much from their canon. - and they were asked not to alter the canon of the faction ( it was something about diplomatic ties to liberty - where the order faction started - or wished to punish those that stuck to the basic lore of the disco order that was still hostile to liberty )

i am strongly against the concept that corsairs leave the "shortage" of food stigma - if they don t gain another problem holding them back. it is a balance issue - simple as that.

we all know that its not really logical. - and that factions need to "grow" and "evolve" beyond their initial limitations - change needs to be done - and players need to be involved in it - thats what discovery is about. but people need to see not only the large picture of decisions but also how it affects the future. it can set off a chain of events that no one has forseen.

each link in the chain being 100% logical - and suddenly we end up with completely messed up factions.... with little to no way back. - that is why only a person overseeing the WHOLE factions wellfare can make such decisions ( igiss / admin team ) but never a faction of players only by itself.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[n00bl3t]

Taking such important issues for granted in roleplay leads to a slew of situations where "neutrality" couldn't possibly exist due to the actions of the Zoners resting behind their iron curtain that should be a delicate balance. You can't say "we're neutral and nothing will change that," because it cuts out the most important part of Discovery - the role of people in roleplay, which is a very dynamic thing. Some might call it "powergaming," though I won't.
Additionally, it is said that Crete no longer has such rampant issues of food shortages. Confer with Zelot on that matter, for he is the expert of all things Corsair.

It was used as an example, however, food is still needed in Crete.

I mean, yes, dynamic role-play is awesome to a point, but it can also mean the death of a faction. Now, that is power-gaming.

I mean, if the Blood Dragons won, Kusari would be completely different. No KNF or Samura for that matter. I would see the Hogosha disappearing quite well as well.

Such a hard-coded thing, in fact the principle base line of a faction, can and should only be broken in specific points with limited people. For instance, Outcast addiction to cardamine. Someone is not going to come along one day and invent a cure that rids their addiction to it, their biological dependence on it and increases their fertility rate. Just too far. However, one OC might break his addiction to it and become an LSF officer or something.

With Zoners, the group is neutral. However, specific individuals, for instance Doc Holliday's wife Midori may be targeted for some reason or another.

Changing the base line of a group is not something that you suddenly decide to do, nor is it beneficial for the mod, when it helps explain and provide paths for groups interacting.

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Sprolf]

How much lore can be altered, and how much should stay as it is?
No lore should be altered.

With all the changes Discovery has made, though, it precludes the idea that particular avenues should be closed to factions in the expansion of roleplay and lore. To bind yourself into a narrow line of thought and prevent any sort of derailment from that by saying "You can't, we're neutral," isn't roleplay in any way, shape, or form, and it isn't much fun for anyone. Are the Zoners politicians or not? When roleplaying as a Zoner, do you have to balance politics, or not? Nobody will roleplay a Zoner if they don't have to... which means, if you cement the idea that they're neutral, and nobody has to work for that, you're effectively changing Zoner roleplay into something completely different.

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[... kur nubėgo?]

I'm with sprolf here. If you are going into zoner rp. Heck in any other rp, you should be able to keep up the lore in dymamic roleplay way, and stop to make excuses "we are neutral, no matter how I act, we still are neutral". If you can't well.. perhaps then it's time to find more suiting roleplay for you.

Lets pick an example. Zoners starts to sabotage corsairs and stops delivering food from freeport 9. What corsairs will do? Take over the station or annihilate it. Simple as that. And you can go behind lore thenm saying: "U can't destory our base we are neutral by canon". But agan, who broken the lore here first? A zoner or a corsair?


But if you head back to the anti zoner syndicate idea.. heh. What it changes? It's just one group of people who are unhappy with zoners. And that's nothing wrong with it. You will always find people who will dislike you, it's natural. It doesn't means that those people will be able to change other faction opinion instantly against the zoners. Same as BD who will never achieve their goal in disco timeline.

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Omega Pirates Guild

History of OPG | Antonio "Vilkas" Devivar

[n00bl3t]

Is anyone going to specifically respond to my post, because frankly, in the two posts that have followed it, I cannot find a tangible response.

Perhaps highlight it for me if you have made an effort to respond to it?

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[... kur nubėgo?]

Is anyone going to specifically respond to my post, because frankly, in the two posts that have followed it, I cannot find a tangible response.

Perhaps highlight it for me if you have made an effort to respond to it?

Heck in any other rp, you should be able to keep up the lore in dymamic roleplay way

Here's your answer

And conclusion if you'r unable:

If you can't well.. perhaps then it's time to find more suiting roleplay for you.

There is no seacret that some roleplay is harder than other.

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Omega Pirates Guild

History of OPG | Antonio "Vilkas" Devivar

[n00bl3t]

Here's your answer

And conclusion if you'r unable:
There is no seacret that some roleplay is harder than other.

Sure.

So, how do you expect Zoners to keep up neutrality? (I think I know the answer, but I await your verbose prose.)

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Doc Holliday]

I'll sum this proposal up as just another person wanting to nerf Zoners even further. Enough already!

And this thing about Zoners becoming too powerful? As it is said in some of the Freeport bars, "Only together can we make it." Well, work as a team and good things happen. Rather than try to stop the Zoners for being successful, maybe people could learn from it.

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