Question about rules

[Jinx]

well , but guard systems don t make use of the server rules. - they are an exception - but what happens when a liberty dreadnaught meets an advanced train full with cardamine in texas now? - normal system, clear situation. - no fighter support around.

6.19 Pirates and terrorists have a right to deal as much damage as they see fit before or after demanding money from a trader ship, but killing trader ship before demanding money is not allowed. Attacking traders or demanding cargo is not allowed for cruisers and battleships, unless cruisers and battleship belong to Terrorist ID or Phantom ID owner.

its a bit unclear. - lawfuls do not belong to terrorists or phantoms - mind, they do demand cargo, if that cargo in question is contraband - but that is not considered pirating of course.

it would be helpful if we had an official statement about that. - does that rule only concern unlawfuls? - or are lawfuls included. - ( and .... are BHGs lawfuls or unlawfuls for that rule )

anyway - there is nothing about what lawfuls are allowed to do ( or not allowed to do ) - i haven t found the passage in the official rules now - but i remember an admin quoting the rule that made me think, too.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[gafwmn]

I look at it this way....IF I am in my cruiser,AND doing guard duty in z-21...then unless the person is setting up their char, or has legitimate authorization to be in z-21, I will first try to get them to stop for scan.IF ignored...blast'em.IF they want to RP, then I scan...if carrying contraband, ask them to drop it and then give them a chioce on which way they want to leave the area, either back through the jumpgate or go into liberty proper.And i dont care what size ship it is,as long as its over lvl 30,but MANY players have taken advantage of the rule to bend to their own devices, such as hiring a lvl 12 char to "scout" either side of a jumpgate/hole because "if you shoot me i will report you" threat, all the while sending reports to their buddy on the other side.And I look at z-21 as a guard system area...so fair warning.Just look at your navmap info for zone-21.:rtfm:


cheers

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[Xoria]

Pirates flying capital ships larger than gunboats cannot tax transports or freighters, much less blow them up, and lawfuls in capital ships face the same restrictions against smugglers.
Zone 21 and Alaska are NOT guard systems, nor are they home systems, and no amount of rationalizing or so-called role-playing can bend the server rules.
My understanding is that the only exception takes place in the purchased home system of a faction :

4.3 Factions are free to restrict or not restrict access to their home systems and tax players who enter home system. Access to systems that surround home system must not be restricted unless there's a war with another faction.

As I understand it, capital ships have more freedom of action when in their own home system, but that is not explicit in the server rules.
Alaska and Zone 21 do NOT have that exception applied to them.
Lawful capital ships have to do the same thing that unlawful ones have to do : call in smaller ships to take care of business.

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[AdamantineFist]

6.7 All PvP/RP rules listed below in section 6 are void in the following situations:

- Self-defense - level 30 limit is not active;
- Attacker and defender belong to two NPC factions that are at war (Kusari vs Bretonia, Outcasts vs Corsairs, House vs local pirates) - level 30 limit is active;
- Attacker and defender belong to two server factions that are at war (officially declared) - level 30 limit is active.
- In systems belonging to server factions and in Connecticut - level 30 limit is not active;

Seems to me that means that if its a faction system you can open fire on tresspassers NO MATTER WHAT. Personally, I would include Alaska and Zone 21 in that, but I'm not sure if they count for that.

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[Reverend Del]

Sorry folks, as Xoria stated no matter what your personal feelings on the matter, Z21 and Alaska are not Guard systems, they just aren't. However, Xoria I asked an Admin explicitly if it was alright for Lawfuls to gun down a transport and the answer was a yes. So it doesn't matter a whit if they're in a guard system you can punch a trader's ticket in a battleship if you want to, unless you're unlawful in which case you can only do it in your guard system.

I'm guessing it's because as a Lawful you are restricted in that you can't really shoot a trader for just anything, you do have to have a damn good reason, but a pirate could demand an extortionate tax just to be able to blow something up, and it's still (barely) within his RP to do so. A trader can avoid lawfuls if he's up to something dubious, the amount of people I've known to fly artifacts or cardamine right into Manhattan with nary a word from the law enforcement hanging around outside. But a pirate can hide, you never know if he's going to be outside the next jumphole waiting to rob you.

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Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.

[Xoria]

Thankyou Adamantine, I was looking for that rule also, and I missed it for some reason.
Del, lawfuls being able to blow up transports is NOT the same thing as blowing up transports in capital ships. In any case, the server rules don't give any room for a lawful battleship/destroyer/cruiser to blow up a trader unless the trader is in the home system of the faction that the capital ship is a member of. The rules don't make any exception for smuggling, illegal parking, public displays of affection, or anything else. Check out this sanction for instance.

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[Reverend Del]

Thankyou Adamantine, I was looking for that rule also, and I missed it for some reason.
Del, lawfuls being able to blow up transports is NOT the same thing as blowing up transports in capital ships. In any case, the server rules don't give any room for a lawful battleship/destroyer/cruiser to blow up a trader unless the trader is in the home system of the faction that the capital ship is a member of. The rules don't make any exception for smuggling, illegal parking, public displays of affection, or anything else. Check out this sanction for instance.

The question I asked the admin was whether it was specifically allowed for lawful capital ships to attack transports, I was told yes. I apologise it seemed I missed important words out of my post. :$

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Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.

[Ichtan]

My view on the matter is, quite simply, would you see the military sitting outside some drug dealer's house and shooting him with a tank for selling cocaine?

Just my two cents.

Edit: I do know that it's freelancer and there's no real way to stop them, but shooting them in battleships, dreadnoughts and the like, is silly in my humble opinion.

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[Titan]

Xoria, that sanction you linked that Spear and I got, was not because I blew that trader up in a cap ship, but because we sort of did it out of annoyance because he didn't obey our orders, we did not have a legitimate reason that a lawful should have for blowing him up, therefore it has nothing to do with blowing up smugglers/traders in a lawful cap ship.

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[Vape]

my personal opinion on this:
if lawful pilots in capships find a smuggler, and said smuggler does not drop cargo, and opens fire on said lawful, they have every right to open up and destroy them.
other times if a smuggler is uncooperative, you should just hit em with an inferno volly, with the birmingham, one volley can take down shields.
also, this might be considered assualt, but often i will CD a smuggler, just in case, as well as take out the TLs.

this is just a precaution.
my two cents

and just to be clear, i have never destroyed a transport with the birmingham, only with my Raven's Claw and Blood dragon bomber (the guy opened up on me, plus he killed several dragon NPCs, nor have i assualted any trader with the birmingham, with the sight of the BC they comply

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