I just have to agree with kikatsu
Last week I was a totaly newbie in Pvp fighting an then I trained with an other newbie now we are both much better then before
Quote:-The rep, iff and id system. Central part of playing. But... what a bummer. There is no way a player will know how to fix his own rep and iff, without him bumping into another player, and that player telling him "you are violating rules with your setup". And then he has to get luck for someone to take the time to explain it to him. Because there is no ingame readable help (and if there even is a forum help its very hard to find) that will tell him how he can make his iff match right. 10-30% of players will take 20-30 minutes of their time to explain it to him to the point where he really knows how to set it up. 40-50% will just say "read rules", leaving him with 10 pages of rules but still not hints on how to actually set up his rep and iff. 50-70% will just ignore him. 1-5% will maybe report for a rule violation. I think it should be easier to buy and id and set up iff. For example, make ides purchasable not at maximum green, but barely green or positive neutral, and then the ID just sets his rep like it should. Or at least make an infocard that everyone can acess where the player can read up how to set up the iff.
You can improve your reputation easily by going to a zoner base an purchase a rep fix, that shouldnt be that hard
and it has reasons that you have do improve you reputation with the faction you want to join before you can join it
As far as the PvP goes, if you want to learn, there's a whole system dedicated to it...
I myself, suck at it, have no wish to learn, and still find a *million* things to do. This is a RP server, take fun in the playing of whatever role you chose. If, however, you have to PvP to have fun, then learn.
There are a lot of ways this mod has become different from the game, and certaom things, which were not existant or not really known about in the orriginal game have become very important:
-The rep, iff and id system. Central part of playing. But... what a bummer. There is no way a player will know how to fix his own rep and iff, without him bumping into another player, and that player telling him "you are violating rules with your setup". And then he has to get luck for someone to take the time to explain it to him. Because there is no ingame readable help (and if there even is a forum help its very hard to find) that will tell him how he can make his iff match right. 10-30% of players will take 20-30 minutes of their time to explain it to him to the point where he really knows how to set it up. 40-50% will just say "read rules", leaving him with 10 pages of rules but still not hints on how to actually set up his rep and iff. 50-70% will just ignore him. 1-5% will maybe report for a rule violation. I think it should be easier to buy and id and set up iff. For example, make ides purchasable not at maximum green, but barely green or positive neutral, and then the ID just sets his rep like it should. Or at least make an infocard that everyone can acess where the player can read up how to set up the iff.
-You can yell at players for acting oorp, but fact is that the whole mod feels oorp. Pirates use lanes and gates that shoot them. Pirates sit in front on Manhattan for purpose of attention-whoring telling people all about how cool their character is, and when a player does the logical thing and attacks them with a police/navy character, they get yelled at "THIS IS A RP SERVER YOU PVP WHORE NOOB".
-People with enough influence in the community (or at least with the dev or admin) get to create their shoot-everything-use-everything faction, with a more than questionable RP background, which doesn't really make much sense in the Freelancer univers. Examples`? Reapers of Sirius. All I was able to understand of their RP is that they shoot people who they deem people who shoot other people, or something. Yeah right. Awesome. Or Hellfrire legion (or how they used to be, havent seen them much lately). Got a hacker iff but shout at you "I AM NOT A HACKER YOU NOOB LEARN TO RP" if you say you see a laner hacker. Also they fly around liberty shooting stuff, it being a total mystery what they want, why they want it, how they get their stuff, or why they should be strong enough as a faction to be able to do that. Oh ok. It's because they're crazy and really awesome. Nomads... ok... a vanilla faction, that should be there. But what the hell... now they are all over Sirius in little groups, for all to see, spreading telepathic messages, not only to themselves (if they are telepathic ok, they could do that) but also to humans, who are not able to do telepathy. And normally humans would destroy those little nomad groups on site right, especially since they can be seen blowing up human stuff all over Sirius? Nope. AFter the nomads flew up to you and said ***we shall see your cities burn***, and you shoot him, another human shoots you in the back and yells at you "STOP GANKING MY LEET FRIENDS!!!!!11". I think you get the idea.
-If it was easy for everyone to learn PvP well early, veterans would have stronger advsersaries to deal with. If it's only player teachable, they can choose who will become good at PvP: people that they like. Which one would you prefer?
I think the reason for all that, is the same. The mod is made and upkept by players who do it for fun, not by payed developers who are trying to make a product likeable to the broader audience. People will make stuff for themselves, and make sure its fun for the people they care about, with the broader casual gamer/noob player taking a back seat.
So I guess you (and me) could launch an apeal for devs and admins to give a little more consideration to the common player, but hey... you aren't going to pay them for doing it, so why should they? They are doing it for their own fun (and for people they care about), just like you play for your own fun and not for other people's fun. What we could do, how ever, is to find or show ways how they would also profit from something like an easier repping system, with less violation reports and a better RP atmosphere for them too.
Big UPS for time taken to reply. I totally agree, maybe an Official POLL to get things changed, and I would consider even donating some money to an overhaul of the Mod.
I guess if I REALLY wanted to make a PvP character I would have to spend a lot of time in Conneticut and learning my Keyboard controls all over... For now it seems I might be back in business with my Barge being taken out of Bastille, I just have to be careful in systems I can't dock in with a Zoner ID...
' Wrote:All I see now is the true Age of this game showing, the way the ships move and the way the guns move and shoot are all messed up and don't follow a logical system.
There are games twice the age of Freelancer with more advanced space fighting gameplay. It's not about the age, it's just that it was intended to follow a more relaxed approach to combat, and that particular approach just fails when it comes to multiplayer. Also that Disco didn't change it when it had the opportunity to.
BlackPixie Wrote:Big UPS for time taken to reply. I totally agree, maybe an Official POLL to get things changed, and I would consider even donating some money to an overhaul of the Mod.
Polls don't change things around here. Devs and Admins who are willing to do the work do. You will have to convince them to do it with reasoning, a poll wont help.
Also, a poll will probably not agree with oyur point. As you can see already by some replies, a lot of people here like it the way it is now. They like to know stuff better than you or other people, and like to keep it that way too because it's an advantage for them.
If you want to learn PvP, I guess you could join a faction in which the members are willing to teach you. It's a I-help-you-if-you-help-me-or-my-faction kind of thing.
For the learning about iff and RP, and making the overall role play atmosphere better by making the universe more logical (lanes, gates, npc populations, faction "rights and privileges"), all we can do is hope devs somehow find enough time and willingness to fix it.
When I first joined a public server I thought I was god in a fighter & was quickly humbled by so many better pilots. I dueled all day with anyone & everyone & then I became the predator. When I got good - I was brutal to all. UK Server was a guns only PvP server, but when I joined Jolt they were using missiles, torps, CDs & Mines & I needed to learn all over again as my engine-kill flying style in a Sabre just wasn't working any more. Same happened on Void with the Nomad lasers. The point is - every server has its own PvP style & Disco is no different. Practice with humility & you'll become a winning pilot. Took me about a 3 weeks to win more than I lost.
Discovery PvP rules are probably the poorest I've experienced on any server, but I'm a guest here & accept the game setup designed by Admin & Dev. I mostly like what happens on Disco & with an old game - this is a fair compromise imo. It's not me putting in the time & money, so I RP a Junker smuggler instead & do a bit of freighter piracy (on the side) to frustrate transport pilots. Freighter piracy rocks & works well here.
This sever is successful for alternate reasons & this keeps me coming back here in preference to other servers. It's a popular server for a variety of reasons.
My big gripe would be allowing bats & bots in combat, but this has been discussed to death & there will be no movement on this, so I take it on the chin.
If you want to improve your PvP skills then get into fights. I probably lost the 1st 15 duels, maybe more.
Simple advise most don't heed - if your ship is more agile then don't joust.
There are a lot of ways this mod has become different from the game, and certaom things, which were not existant or not really known about in the orriginal game have become very important:
-The rep, iff and id system. Central part of playing. But... what a bummer. There is no way a player will know how to fix his own rep and iff, without him bumping into another player, and that player telling him "you are violating rules with your setup". And then he has to get luck for someone to take the time to explain it to him. Because there is no ingame readable help (and if there even is a forum help its very hard to find) that will tell him how he can make his iff match right. 10-30% of players will take 20-30 minutes of their time to explain it to him to the point where he really knows how to set it up. 40-50% will just say "read rules", leaving him with 10 pages of rules but still not hints on how to actually set up his rep and iff. 50-70% will just ignore him. 1-5% will maybe report for a rule violation. I think it should be easier to buy and id and set up iff. For example, make ides purchasable not at maximum green, but barely green or positive neutral, and then the ID just sets his rep like it should. Or at least make an infocard that everyone can acess where the player can read up how to set up the iff.
-You can yell at players for acting oorp, but fact is that the whole mod feels oorp. Pirates use lanes and gates that shoot them. Pirates sit in front on Manhattan for purpose of attention-whoring telling people all about how cool their character is, and when a player does the logical thing and attacks them with a police/navy character, they get yelled at "THIS IS A RP SERVER YOU PVP WHORE NOOB".
-People with enough influence in the community (or at least with the dev or admin) get to create their shoot-everything-use-everything faction, with a more than questionable RP background, which doesn't really make much sense in the Freelancer univers. Examples`? Reapers of Sirius. All I was able to understand of their RP is that they shoot people who they deem people who shoot other people, or something. Yeah right. Awesome. Or Hellfrire legion (or how they used to be, havent seen them much lately). Got a hacker iff but shout at you "I AM NOT A HACKER YOU NOOB LEARN TO RP" if you say you see a laner hacker. Also they fly around liberty shooting stuff, it being a total mystery what they want, why they want it, how they get their stuff, or why they should be strong enough as a faction to be able to do that. Oh ok. It's because they're crazy and really awesome. Nomads... ok... a vanilla faction, that should be there. But what the hell... now they are all over Sirius in little groups, for all to see, spreading telepathic messages, not only to themselves (if they are telepathic ok, they could do that) but also to humans, who are not able to do telepathy. And normally humans would destroy those little nomad groups on site right, especially since they can be seen blowing up human stuff all over Sirius? Nope. AFter the nomads flew up to you and said ***we shall see your cities burn***, and you shoot him, another human shoots you in the back and yells at you "STOP GANKING MY LEET FRIENDS!!!!!11". I think you get the idea.
-If it was easy for everyone to learn PvP well early, veterans would have stronger advsersaries to deal with. If it's only player teachable, they can choose who will become good at PvP: people that they like. Which one would you prefer?
I think the reason for all that, is the same. The mod is made and upkept by players who do it for fun, not by payed developers who are trying to make a product likeable to the broader audience. People will make stuff for themselves, and make sure its fun for the people they care about, with the broader casual gamer/noob player taking a back seat.
So I guess you (and me) could launch an apeal for devs and admins to give a little more consideration to the common player, but hey... you aren't going to pay them for doing it, so why should they? They are doing it for their own fun (and for people they care about), just like you play for your own fun and not for other people's fun. What we could do, how ever, is to find or show ways how they would also profit from something like an easier repping system, with less violation reports and a better RP atmosphere for them too.
i have to admit that i somewhat agree with what he said ....
' Wrote:If a simple and reliable system of combat was developed within the limitations of this game you could then balance the ships accordingly.
Great idea. Now go develop such a system and propose it on the board here. Let's see if you can keep everyone happy - in my year and a half as a dev, if there's one thing I've learned, is that this community does NOT appreciate sweeping changes.
To be honest, if you're unhappy with Freelancer, or Discovery mod as a game in general, play something else. Nothing compels you to stay here, but while you play this game, you play it with the same rulebook and control options as everyone else. Turret steering already got people a major new way to handle their ship in combat. I'll admit there's no real manual on how to make optimal use of that mechanic which was not part of the original game - but that's where player tutorials and practise come in.
Wide awake in a world that sleeps, enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.
Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.
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