Nice proposal! Though it affects me little nowadays that was enjoyable to read. If daniel feenix is still around and approves I might donate what is left of the Slaver's Union's old resources. Provided of course they didn't get wiped like the Mistress did.
' Wrote:The junkers have their own line of guns that rival the skyblast line.
Civilian weapons are fine since the junkers are technically civilians, besides which everyone seems to want to mount pulse cannons.
Ships... anything sold on a junker base... that includes the bloodhound and legionaire. Do you mean anything sold on a junker base that isn't assigned to another faction?
Pirate transport and train, they're pirate vessels so I doubt you'll fly them openly through house space.
The miner use to be sold on a samura owned planet in kusari, if it still is the hogosha won't let you get near the place and if you do get there samura won't let you have it until the hogosha enforcers get to you.
Prison liner... questionable as to why you'd want to use that.
Rhienland battleship... how exactly are you planning to haul the seperate pieces all the way to the junker guard system without the RM finding out?
Especially since ALG are keeping a careful watch over what the rheinlanders consider graves/war-memorials and that you've have to clear each and every system of all traffic, disable the tracking software, built into each jumpgate and tradelane ring, that agiera and interspace commerce use to see what ships are hauling what cargo (and which the hackers have access to) just to make sure that no-one see it.
Other then that... I don't see any problems.
You have an argument there that to me is a little overstated and based on some things that are assumptions not necessarily established facts.
Junkers sell the things at their bases--it stands to reason they could buy them on occasion. The question is, would they and if they did what would they use it for and how would it affect them?
The Prison Liner has been discussed on other occasions on the forum and several times has been noted as a suitable Junker ship by several different players. This is really a minor issue--we have a specific RP use for it that is something one or two members may want to do. It is an option and can't be "forbidden" simply because an individual doesn't see an obvious reason to have it.
The ALG argument is somewhat contrived. Gas fields, radiation, volatile gas, a base in the midst of Wild, player pirates, terrorists and Corsair patrols with numerous jump holes to several systems. Could the Junkers smuggle out things? Of course they could...and by their faction's--and our own particular faction's-- behavior very likely would.
Sure Rheinland would see them as war memorials. The Pacific islands on earth are littered with war memorials that are sunken ships where salvage or taking things is illegal and they are progressively looted each year. The fields around Yanagi are not "The Pearl Harbor Memorial". Radiation, volatile gas, Corsairs and the Wild make "graveside memorial services" a bit unlikely. I'm sure when the Junkers recover bodies or personal effects, they respectfully turn them over to the authorities--simply to maintain good impressions. In fact, it is just such recoveries that justify our role play back story that we are archivists and records keepers as well as salvagers and social networkers par excellence.
Puerto Rico has a shipyard and is an isolated system with lots of room and places to hide things. Assembling a Rheinland cruiser or battleship there isn't implausible. Working codes, CDs bats and bots are pulled of the wrecks in Yanagi all the time. Why not engine components and the like?
As barragers are sold primarily at Junker bases (some Molly as well) we can call them Junker guns and they are good. "Rivaling" skyblasts is overstated--comparable to is a better description. Yet they are on the low end of faction weaponry and are the only gun type the Junkers posses "natively".
As "stock gear" for the CSV and Collector and a secondary gun on some fighters, fine. it stand to reason though there will be times where other guns would be used. If Bretonian splitters are available on a Junker base, why couldn't they be used?
In like manner, "stock" weapons of unlawful faction shouldn't be that hard for Junkers to purchase. It's just a question of what might they be used for? i firmly agree that "guards weapons" that are faction specific shouldn't be on Junker ships and i think the server policies pretty much already dictate that.
Faction specific SHIPS would not normally be flown by Junkers or any other players. A Legionnaire would be a poor choice of a personal ship for a Junker or trader or lawful--even a freelancer. It is firmly associated with piracy and it would be hard to overcome the image with.
Guns and weapons? A little more flexible, I think. The pirate carriers are the most "Junker looking" ships and people like them. I think it isn't to much of a stretch to say they have to be solely associated with "piracy". You carry a smuggler license but you aren't arrested as a smuggler on sight by police.
It shows that, as a trade, you have demonstrated trends of suspicious behavior that make you a bit suspect and warrant more attention from the authorities towards you. in general, ship types and guns should be the same. You don't necessarily get blown to smithereens for mounting a pirate gun but it sure raises questions and attracts attention.
Every player has to decide how much heat they can take and how much respectability they want to project, then roll the dice and take their chances.
I tried not to restate server rules and policies as its a given they must be followed.
Your comment though about pirate vessels is a good point though. What would Junkers fly for big transport? I can see a role for collectors and CSVs that includes not just salvage but loading and offloading "suspicious" vessels near Junker bases but surely their is a large ship that a Junker could "honestly" trade in.
The Firefly would be a candidate and many Junkers like it. there is no reason Junkers couldn't have a train. But the role play is nicer if Junkers have a lot of 'suspicious vessels"--they just aren't entirely confined to them.
As to the mining ship--its just an rp that some Junkers like and it is pretty singular for it's purpose. I don't think we have a big conflict here. A Junker shows up, puts down the cash, gets treated rudely as they take his money and is told to take his ship get out of the area quickly before someone tells a Hogosha he is about. If Kusari imposes an enforced official ban on Junkers in their space or Mining ships are only available at Hogosha bases--different story then.
' Wrote:Nice proposal! Though it affects me little nowadays that was enjoyable to read. If daniel feenix is still around and approves I might donate what is left of the Slaver's Union's old resources. Provided of course they didn't get wiped like the Mistress did.
Thanks much!
Hehe--after a month of constructive flaming its nice to hear some compliments..and please, Do send money :yahoo:
' Wrote:just so you know i'm all for starting a junker faction
BUT
I'm still totally against junkers having capships. sure they deserve the right to defend themselves but to my knowledge their enemies aren't in anything bigger than a bomber.......so, why capships?
The Junker ID allows battleships and cruisers.
I absolutely HATE the idea of telling someone regarding something they could do, "You can't do that because I don't like it". Instead, I think it's important to find a way to play the game around what it allows, rather than make a new ad hoc rule each time something comes up that this person or that person doesn't like (thanks for the support by the way--when we have our first congressional votes, come and vote your conscience).
The other reason is, perhaps one day, there might be a need for a Junker cap ship. A nomad attack on Puerto Rico to cripple the Junkers for prying to much in Nomad space. Retaliation for the Wild for salvaging from them in New Berlin or Sigma-13. The SA contrives a major issue with the Junkers and declares Puerto Rico as "fully under Liberty control" and station those big annoying ships they have there. Perhaps the Junkers have a big role play secret in Puerto Rico that they don't want others to see and the cap ships are part of the rp there.
So there are things that might merit it. I don't think you are going to find most Junkers are going to save for a Rhein and then park it--they just won't get one. By specifying this as "our" official cap ship, I am also eliminating all the other cap ships out there a player might try to shoe horn into rp. I can't control what non-faction members fly or where they fly them but this is actually one of the more controlling "rules" I have made and it addresses something the mod allows rather than ignores it.
Also, if you have ever flown a Rhein, they may possibly be the biggest silhouette and target size ship in the game. Every shot hits them. the noise is mind numbing.
My biggest concern is getting younger players to rp realistically--cap ships are the lesser issue. if we have good rpers, you won't see cap ship abuse.
1) Just because it's sold there doesn't mean it's kosher RP to mount it. For instance, by your logic, Samura RPers could mount Liberty Vengeance Mk5's, since it's sold on Kurile. I don't really see the need for you to mount Zoner weapons. EDIT: Also, please tell me that you are going to restrict the number of weapons that can be mounted on Junker ships that originate from other factions? e.g.) Max 2 Rogue guns on a Collector, etc...
2) Ship restrictions: Good, but can you be more concrete as to the number you will have? (Besides the RH Cap)
3) Change the Names of your Ranks: Frankly, your ranks make you seem like members of some elite enclave... When you have Junkers going around speaking in perfectly english addressing their leaders with titles like "Arbiter" or "Adjudicator," it seems to depart from the RP of the Junkers. I'm not telling you to RP as hillbillies, but to pick "laxer" titles.
The Junkers, if you read rumors and news, are a backstabbing, disorganized lot. Even if the Junker Congress consists of more refined members, you really can't change years of nurture.
4) I find the scientists and researcheres part slightly unbelieveable, but then again, totally possible. Go for it.
5) A barely important note...The Firefly seems to be okay for junker usage, but for future reference, you can't just let someone use a ship because they like it. Your current shiplist is fine, I just wanted to point that out in case it happens in the future, if you are approved.
Godspeed and Good luck!
Quote:[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<
Quote:Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?
Unfortunately, I also have a bit of a problem with the Rheinland BS, as it just requires too much organization and manpower, which the Junkers don't seem to have...I suggest a Rheinland Cruiser. Many of those wrecks float around Yanagi too!
You should be, however, pleased with the fact that your idea is a very fresh idea. I would love to see or be part of the RP thread that details the construction of this vessel. Of course, it will be a "junked" or souped-up ship....with random parts...and random technologies!
Quote:[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<
Quote:Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?
Anyone who deals with the junkers knows that they live by a strict code; if you're not a Junker, you're not part of the family. A Junker will double-cross you without a second thought, and they're fiercely protective of each other.
I believe that should take care of the "backstabing, disorganized lot" argument.*/
We backstab others, not each other. We don't traditionally follow a leader because we have grown to dislike and, in rare cases, fear the rigid class system visible in most house populations and corporate entities. The Junker Congress, with its mild-mannered and nearly structureless form of leadership, is revolutionary in that it allows us to keep almost all of the freedom that we are used to while providing a vast increase in collective safety, friendly diplomatic relations, and personal profit margins. This comes at a time when common pirates masquerading as Junkers are prowling the house systems; a time when we need someone to stand up and voice who we are and what we believe in.
//Tink, I hope that blurb fit your RP as well as mine, sorry if I misrepresented us in any way.
1) Just because it's sold there doesn't mean it's kosher RP to mount it. For instance, by your logic, Samura RPers could mount Liberty Vengeance Mk5's, since it's sold on Kurile. I don't really see the need for you to mount Zoner weapons. EDIT: Also, please tell me that you are going to restrict the number of weapons that can be mounted on Junker ships that originate from other factions? e.g.) Max 2 Rogue guns on a Collector, etc...
2) Ship restrictions: Good, but can you be more concrete as to the number you will have? (Besides the RH Cap)
3) Change the Names of your Ranks: Frankly, your ranks make you seem like members of some elite enclave... When you have Junkers going around speaking in perfectly english addressing their leaders with titles like "Arbiter" or "Adjudicator," it seems to depart from the RP of the Junkers. I'm not telling you to RP as hillbillies, but to pick "laxer" titles.
The Junkers, if you read rumors and news, are a backstabbing, disorganized lot. Even if the Junker Congress consists of more refined members, you really can't change years of nurture.
4) I find the scientists and researcheres part slightly unbelieveable, but then again, totally possible. Go for it.
5) A barely important note...The Firefly seems to be okay for junker usage, but for future reference, you can't just let someone use a ship because they like it. Your current shiplist is fine, I just wanted to point that out in case it happens in the future, if you are approved.
Godspeed and Good luck!
I was trying to keep it as simple as possible but lets work on this...
I like the idea of capship limits--there is no need for "everybody" to have one. How about we just solve the entire problem there and say that the Junker Congress only allows only ONE battleship to be owned with by its membership, representing the faction, with leadership approval. If players want to fly a battleship of their own they can have another character do so. I think its more productive to do this than to have the strife caused with other groups and players. So done.
This seems to be the only sticking point with most other players outside the Congress and I'd accept it as a good compromise. This way, it's really only a RP vessel--not a concern over which player gets what and how many.
As to cruisers, I would still say the Pirate Rheinland Cruiser or Rheinland cruiser are acceptable as player choices but to keep it playable, let's restrict it to a set number one cruiser per Junker base under direct control of the adjudicator there.
So the amended rules allow ONE Rheinland battleship to be held with approval of the "Arbiters" and stationed in Puerto Rico only and ONE cruiser each at Kruzberg, Rochester, Beaumont, Yanagi, Bornholm and Trafalgar and ownable only by the current base adjudicator there. Furthermore, I'd require these cruisers could not move beyond the 2km ZOI imposed around our bases.
I'll amend and add a "cruiser/battleship play guidelines" section but those are the general ideas as stated above.
I think limiting other faction weapons use to two such weapons per ship is fine and that will be amended. (that would not include codes, Junker or civilian weapons or those commonly available to all factions).
The Firefly is used for smuggling and its the only ship sold by houses specifically that I'd see Junkers using (and for that reason and that it was liked, I added it). My bad not elaborating more on that.
Junkers are not all the same. Junkers in the "Guard" have a different function than those in the general population and the reason there is a backstory rp group, The "Junker Guard Party" is to make the point and paint the picture that those junkers who initiated and pushed through the Congress idea think and act on a little grander scale than the average Junker worker on the scrap lines every day trying to make a living.
They are a little elitist and idealistic and their interests, language, tastes and affectations will show that.
look at my avatar--its a caricature of a "Centauri" from "Babylon 5". We aren't playing B5 or Centauri's here but the mindset is similar. these are junkers who have embraced change and hunger to see more to Junker life than simply working hard from the cradle to the grave. they want to see what the Junkers have done become a legacy.
If you look at real life "guards" factions as in Iran or Iraq and elsewhere, they are idealist groups that use military, religious and political goals and status as banners under which to direct their society. They are always "elitist' groups. The most noble are those that serve like the palace guards in England or the Roman Legion before it became involved in politics but the range goes all the way from unquestioning loyalty and submission to government to those that run their governments (usually by proxy for a fascist like leader).
Only the "real people" the average everyday Joe's with mouths to feed and those observant intellectuals willing to publicly dissent, keep factions such as this in check normally. But it is the "smartness" and "regalness" and confidence of such groups that allows them to be accepted and even embraced by their populaces as well.
Dreygon's view OOC is also the sort of view in-character that checks the Congress/Guards and keeps them from running amuck. Also the average worker--the masses that don't want to risk or lose what they have. It is a balance--which is a concept the Congress embraces.
So the Guards pushes for "more" for Junker society but traditionalists and the common man keep it from going to far. The Congress rules--rather than the Junker Guards Party itself--to keep that balanced intact.
Regarding the name, Oniros and I went over that a bit and a few others too.
What I said above is reflected in those titles a bit but also the "working class" values of Junkers.
Arbiters are what we have here in family courts and between unions and management to settle differences--quite appropriate.
Adjudicators are "judges" but usually with limited scope.
My wife is a "claims adjudicator" at work. She makes final rulings and decisions on what gets paid and what doesn't. But she can't resolve civil or legal matters.
Both these terms are used in business today and business is what greatly defines the Junkers.
We threw out tiles as, "President", "Judges", "Governors" because we didn't t think Junkers themselves would be comfortable with powerful titles and people holding them.
Lol--I would much rather type, "Gov." than "adjudicator".
Last point--all Junkers wouldn't be scientists, etc. just the cream of the elite--those most influential in the Junker Guards party. They are the ones who "invented" the Junker Congress.
![[Image: Tink_Shadow.png]](http://junkers.worldstrider.info/images/Tink_Shadow.png)
