Ok... ship balancing

[X-Lancer]

if it's laser....shouldn't be the gun just keep firing until it run out of energy? like a flash light....

[AdamantineFist]

if it's laser....shouldn't be the gun just keep firing until it run out of energy? like a flash light....

Might heat up. Also, it probably uses some sort of capacitor in order to achieve a powerful shot, which may take time to recharge. Also, seeing as it's a laser, shouldn't it fire in a beam? And at the speed of light? Come to think of it, tachyon weapons shouldn't exist at all, as TACHYONS DON'T INTERACT WITH NORMAL MATTER AT ALL!!!!!!!!! :crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:

Heh... there's some big problems in the science behind the game (way ships move...), but we shouldn't get TOO hung up over them.

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[Dusty Lens]

Heavens.

Those are some very scary gunboats you're concocting.

[AdamantineFist]

Heavens.

Those are some very scary gunboats you're concocting.

Only to fighters/bombers. Against capships, they'll be next to useless.

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[Dusty Lens]

Indeed!

I agree, it makes sense that a gunboat have a 10000 speed 8.33 re-fire 1400 range fighter slaughtering weapon. I mean, after all, it would be exceptionally annoying if fighters stood any chance at all in any fleet, or individual, engagements.

Furthermore, in further reply to the idea that a gunboat with yet further increased maneuverability packing such weapons would be useless against caps I submit the following: lulz.

[Tenacity]

Indeed!

I agree, it makes sense that a gunboat have a 10000 speed 8.33 re-fire 1400 range fighter slaughtering weapon. I mean, after all, it would be exceptionally annoying if fighters stood any chance at all in any fleet, or individual, engagements.

Furthermore, in further reply to the idea that a gunboat with yet further increased maneuverability packing such weapons would be useless against caps I submit the following: lulz.

when the gunboats dont have access to weapons with enough firepower to even scratch capships... what's the problem?

They serve as fighter-killers, because the larger caps (here, at least) dont have the defenses to take down enemy fighters.

Right now, even a VHF can effectively take down most gunboats one on one because they dodge so well. Compounded with lag, that's a big problem.

Bombers should be the only non-capships capable of harming capships, and the fact that a pair of fighters can easily take down a gunboat somewhat frustrates me. They shouldnt even have the firepower capable of taking out a capship, but there they are... with mini razors, infernos, shield busters, and nuke mines. Restricting the gunboats to anti-fighter weapons removes their usefulness against capships in exchange for becoming fighter-killers.

Really, if you look at what that does overall to gunboats... they'd probably end up being used less than they are now. Most players are using gunboats because they're both cheap and fairly effective against cruisers at the moment - a gunboat with proper weaponry can sit at 2k range and easily out-strafe cruiser fire while returning fire that the cruiser isnt able to dodge (because it's slower and less manuverable).

Also look at the fact that, right now, bombers are effective against ALL opponents and really have no counters. They've got the firepower to take out caps, but they can use that firepower almost as effectively against fighters. Making the gunboat a 'fighter killer' would also make it a good counter to bombers where currently there is none.

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[Dusty Lens]

when the gunboats dont have access to weapons with enough firepower to even scratch capships... what's the problem?

They serve as fighter-killers, because the larger caps (here, at least) dont have the defenses to take down enemy fighters.

Right now, even a VHF can effectively take down most gunboats one on one because they dodge so well. Compounded with lag, that's a big problem.

Bombers should be the only non-capships capable of harming capships, and the fact that a pair of fighters can easily take down a gunboat somewhat frustrates me. They shouldnt even have the firepower capable of taking out a capship, but there they are... with mini razors, infernos, shield busters, and nuke mines. Restricting the gunboats to anti-fighter weapons removes their usefulness against capships in exchange for becoming fighter-killers.

Really, if you look at what that does overall to gunboats... they'd probably end up being used less than they are now. Most players are using gunboats because they're both cheap and fairly effective against cruisers at the moment - a gunboat with proper weaponry can sit at 2k range and easily out-strafe cruiser fire while returning fire that the cruiser isnt able to dodge (because it's slower and less manuverable).

Also look at the fact that, right now, bombers are effective against ALL opponents and really have no counters. They've got the firepower to take out caps, but they can use that firepower almost as effectively against fighters. Making the gunboat a 'fighter killer' would also make it a good counter to bombers where currently there is none.

So in other words gunboats, in their current form, are a light weight capital class vessel effective against the vessels directly below and above its weight class? That does seem to need adjusting.

The notion that making gunboats an "I win" button against fighters would cause them to decrease in popularity is absurd. They're already employed with aims towards that goal, chiefly because they actually don't generally explode at the sight of a SHF, contrary to popular belief. Neither do lone bombers float amongst fleets of hapless gunboats, slaughtering them left and right. If the bane of your life comes in the form of fighters, I might suggest you explore missile and solaris turrets. A gunboat sporting full missile turrets stands a very solid chance at slaughtering all fighters that dare stand before it.

VHFs and Bombers do not simply walk up to gunboats, touch them and chortle as they die. A Sabre pilot might down a gunboat if he's exceptionally good and some gunboats can be bested in solo encounters by bomber pilots of rather fantastic skill (I've yet to have done it more than twice). A gunboat presents a very strong challenge to fighters to best, but they can be bested. Gunboats have actually been known to win a fight or two now and then!

When I'm weary of is your rock paper scissor mentality. Gunboat beats fighter, fighter beats... Well, fighter. Bomber beats cruiser. Cruiser beats gunboat and so on. To consider anything else is blasphemy.

I like a bit of slack in the system, that maybe we can undock a single bomber and two fighters and stand a fighting chance in all type of situations. That we don't need to pull together six players to simply venture out into the world lest we encounter the exact right combination of countering forces.

What you're proposing makes sense in a SP strategy game, but holds far less water in Discovery.

[Tenacity]

the reason I prefer that 'rock paper scissors' balancing method, at least for online situations like we have here, is because it forces people to work together rather than play solo all the time.

You team up with people using different ship classes to make up for your own weaknesses. It encourages teamwork, and in the end you get larger battles that feel more 'epic'.

Dont know about you, but i'm tired of getting into pvp fights where everyone is in battleships, VHF's, and bombers only. Look at some of the planned pvp events between corsairs and outcasts, where only fighter-type ships are used... the battles last hours on end. The less-planned pvp encounters usually end up being who has the biggest ship or the most bombers on their side.

I just dont think anyone ship should function equally well against all other ship classes. Everything should have a very defined, very apparent weakness, and they should be required to team up with someone else who can protect that weakness - or have it exploited.

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[X-Lancer]

in a simple line....battleship heavy weapon...low re-firerate (something like 0.5)...huge damage...a speed at around 2K/s....slow aiming speed...for self defence weapon...high re-fire rate....low damage..short range...and fast aiming speed...

(seriously...no energy usage for Battleship weapons..or even cruiser's....because if a battleship with full of heavy weapon it would be useless against anything that is not bigger than battleship at short range....if use full of self defence turret it would useless against anything smaller than a cruiser..)

[LH~Highwayman]

My problem is with the gunboats.... What happened to making fighters even slightly useful? The second a gunboat shows up... If it can dodge BS fire, then all the fighters and bombers are as good as dead.

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