Quote:It's only out of context because I didn't get into what the thread was about and it wouldn't matter if it was arguing over what ship is prettiest.
Well frankly, you're shooting yourself in the foot here. This comment came in a thread that I started, trying to generate constructive advice for people to improve RP. As for the person this was directed at, well I think the thread speaks for itself. Context determines everything. If a person wanted to say "Then get the %$#@##$ out if you don't like it" I'm sure he or she would. And while I might personally find the tone Unselie used a little strong I can see how the comment came about. If people won't respond to reason, eventually people will begin to sound unreasonable. Having said that, I think the comments are pretty realistic. It's not nice or pretty but that is the way things work out. I'm sure I and you have said some pretty harsh sounding things in our time, but who hasn't. If you had read the previous pages you might have got some indication of what prompted the remark. You say this is about attitudes. If you are going to quote from threads, at least do the people who wrote in them the courtesy of reading what they contributed before you start quoting. Not to do so shows disregard.
If you want an admin to respond publicly, Pm them and ask them to. Posting a new thread only generates responses from other people in the forum. Like me.
All of this is adding fuel to a fire that, in the grand scheme of things, isn't all that important. This is a spaceship game, remember. So with that in mind, I am going for a picnic now.
what people have got 2 think about is, you treat indies like crap then they wont play, less play = less people, less people = less things to do, less people to kill overall if you are horrible to the people they wont come and if they wont come then, well they might as well close the server right now, because people get bored of the game so they quit, but the peoples numbers that quit are accounted for with new indies that join.
nuff said?
treat them with respect or get F....d
[22:50:33] ☆ҳ̸̲Ҳ̸ҳEternalâ Nightmareҳ̸̲Ҳ̸ҳ☆(illi): i cyber with leather torps (smoking)
' Wrote:This isn't about "fair" or "the majority" or who thinks they are right. And "indies" who play responsibly are as much a faction here as any "faction".
Actually it is about fairness and the majority. Unless of course
Quote:This is where 99% of the strife, arguing and sancrtion requests are coming from--this attitude:
(Unselie @ Jun 9 2008, 09:41 PM)
Ah, but you see ... you have every right to do that, on the server. Thats the point of an open server. We have every right to pound on you for it, because there are more of us, and so long as we follow server rules, we win. We haven't broken any rules, and the admins are siding with us, so you can continue to give a rats ass what the forum community thinks, but understand, we're bigger, and we're more organized. We run factions, we join factions, we stay around, we talk in skype, and we know who you are, and we seem to dislike what you want to stand for. Thats the climate, as I see it. The forum goers and faction leaders have lots of friends, and lots of influence...that, as Xoria explained somewhere else, means we can walk all over the less organized or smaller groups of people who disagree with us on the server.
Is not actually referring to the quotation provided.
If it isn't about said quotation, what is it about? The attitude is actually just realist. That is how things are on the server and in life.
There are very very few, if any, factions out there that treat independants horribly. Some factions can be heavy handed in their dealings as many new people aren't aware of these various RP-only Rules (Ship restrictions etc) and simply blow it off as being the new person's fault for not reading the forums. Considering that these threads are usually pages long and full of Spam, can you blame them? And when they see in the server rules that they can fly anything they want, surely they can't be expected to hunt down these elusive threads that they don't even know exist?
More information is needed for new people BUT the fact remains that Factions (Yes there is a difference between 1 independant and an officially recognised faction of dozens) can dominate Independants. Might makes right in Freelancer.
There's half a dozen pages before that prompting Unseelie to get mad, she got fed -up with reading one man's personal crusade against us factioned folks and told him how it was. Yes it was a little strong. Oh well.
Got to agree with the point about this being internet spaceships. Chill folks it's just a game. Even me, who spends more than a bit of time on these forums can see that.
Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.
This will be my last post on this thread--I got my answer already.
An admin response isn't really needed (by me) at this point.
I just want to point something out to you all.
The Freelancer community is shrinking (mainly due to the loss of the list server and I am sure collapse of TLR too).
The reason Discovery has so many players is because there was a core community here (and we are seeing one half of that core in some of these responses) that kept the numbers up even as other servers were losing members as people couldn't find them or didn't know of them.
The hard work of the modder here is the greatest contributing factor--Igiss made a stable, balanced, well thought out mod. Many mods don't come close.
Most people don't want to play on an empty or short server. So they scan the list server (or the workaround equivalent) and go to the one with the most players (ping allowing).
You old hands that are so sure that the 'your way or the highway concept' is the great way might not realize you are doing the same thing AOL did--generating 'churn'. You get floods of new people and you churn out a lot of them even as you get them.
I have noted the players who came in and then left and while part of that is inevitable, part of it is avoidable. There aren't so many new players coming into Freelancer now, that you can blow them off by the dozens over and over.
Well actually, that's wrong--you can. What you will end up with--gradually, over time--is a small community of faction participants who are invested and no one else. Won't happen overnight, but it will happen.
The servers that are gone or are ghosts now didn't suddenly "suck overnight" and lose all their people. There simply aren't enough players now to fill the servers.
There is a 'ghost server' now that at one time was the highest traffic one. Same thing happened to it. The "old crews" formed big clans and claimed ownership.
My reasons for stirring this up were not to point fingers and hurl insults.
Its concern for the future of this server. of course, the smug will say, "We'll always be here--we don't need those other people."
Seen it all before guys--nothing new under the sun.
Sadly, its just an ego-pissing match with most of the 'great debaters on here'--the point is usually completely not gotten by most of the peanut gallery.
So you can come back with all the personal stuff you want--my concern is that the server stays strong and keeps going--not just that your factions do.
Kudos to Jinx who almost without exception keeps a balanced view and even more importantly will speak up when all the other old crew are towing a party line.
So I'm gonna play and we'll see what happens. Hope it works out.
<span style="font-family:System">Hogosha Exile</span> The Journal of Benjo Dokosai
I don't have the nerve to argue here. Espessially when it comes to Unseelie , let's just say I've got my taste of her , thinking that she is more then some people...but thats yet another story.
There are some things I wanna say here
Official clans are not representitives of the ENTIRE faction. It's EASY to over-RP them.
Clans are something I learned the hard way to avoid , they are not worth my time because people in them promote and treat good only those who they are friends with or they like , not the RP'er. But they are good for an indie , because some of the players in those clans can RP and that can help the indie player alot.
I laugh at something here. It is realy something that is unjust , but Shigeo Kitamura - Hogosha can't expain is this.
If a clan declares an indie hostile and destroy them over and over again , that is correct RP , because the "majoroty" has rights , not the singular player. BUT
What happens when indies of a given faction , deside they have had enough and using the same or RP excuses deside to simply....DESOMATE the clan.
Now "Clans have more people , they will never be able to ..balalala" - Clans aren't always a 5-6 people online job. Most of the time they are just 1-2 players ... BUT here is where the infairness starts.
Clans have leaders. Leaders have to have connections to get aproved , so it's easy for them to make the admins ban/sanction the players who they cannot stop. Because , and trust me on that one , if the indies some clans have desided to chase away , deside to unite and RP wise use the stupid and REALY REALY OLD excuse of something like "omg he is corrupted KILL HIM" , what are you going to do then ?
... they would kill them back? It's not like a bunch of crazed indies is the major concern for factions.
Here we go again, "all clans are evil and don't give a rats about indies". Let's take a look at the Nature's Last Hope (sorry Im rdy if this is not allowed).
Do they restrict independents? No, because there aren't really any independent Gaians apart from Clover and Marburg's team.
Do we oppress indies, by treating them as trash? No, in fact the independents have added a lot to the overall Gaian RP.
Do we have blanket restrictions for independents, designed to "hamper their RP to pave the way for faction domination"? No.
Now, if clans are going to be a focus of arguments here then they need to specify which ones, instead of blindly placing everyone in the same group. Hey, Akumabito said that blanket messages involving independents were bad, what a double standard regarding factions...
Also, do you really think that if clans get attacked by indies, that they'll use their "secret skype connections" to get them banned by the admins? What a paranoid and ridiculous claim...
Have to have connections to get approved? I'd one hundred percent disagree with that notion, I don't know where people are getting the idea that the official factions are in some joint conspiracy with the admins to hunt down and exterminate all indys, I really don't.
Second point, some of the factions do represent the entirety of that faction.
Liberty Rogues we are the entirety of the Liberty Rogues and I would expect independent rogues to respect that, although we treat them according to thier ship class so a captain of a Destroyer only has to listen to the orders from the myself or my two seconds.
Rheinland military is the entirety of the Rheinland Military and acts accordingly
Kusari naval forces equally so.
Liberty security Force respects indy rights in the main as does the LPI.
Most of the player factions have no issue with indys, someone wants to fly around in a Rogue Gunboat pirating, I'm all for it. Let them have fun. Someone wnats to hang around New York in a Outcast Destroyer killing every fighter that steps into his path, so that I get a hundred PMs and Skype messages from peeved indys and faction members alike I ain't all for that. What people seem to be missing is that despite the fact we don't control you the factions still get flak for poorly RP'd independents, people telling us to reign them in. When we try to we get flak from the independents. A faction leader's life is one filled with endless complications and not a job for the faint hearted, ask any faction leader how much time he gets to play the game. I guarantee you it isn't as much as you think. It's no surprise that some of them lose patience when folks jump on them for even the slightest breach in demeanour. They, like you are only human.
Let's kill this debate between Indies and Factioned folks once and for all. The factions don't hate indies. The indies shouldn't hate factions. So long as everyone RP's or trys to then we should all just get along and enjoy what time we have to play.
Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.
You two are just over exadurating my words and you both know full well what I'm talking about.
You are right do , Del. Only one thing I don't agree with , RP is not everything for you faction leaders and thats is something that you know , it's 50% of the whole deal to like the person and to let him join the clan , only the other half is for his RP positivities.
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