People's main problem with The Judges.

[Ash]

I for one have no problem with the faction itself or the way it's being run. Those reinforcing any of the points already mentioned are just plain hypocritical. Since we all did what you're doing at one point or another, server activity points or not. It just so happens your at Newark is all, more visible as target of criticism.

My only point however is purely down to my nature as a purist of Freelancer. I never really liked the ideas of imports, add in's, copies and pastes of ideas from other universes. Call me a hypocrite too since I was part of CR for some time but it still doesn't quite sit right with me in general.

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[Tonto1911]

Hasteric, I will admit you have good ideas that I will talk to the others about , and I'm honestly glad that your in-game hate doesn't bleed over here.

Even ingame there's no hate. Just business.

The farming for hours thing isn't 100% accurate however, even though it seems that way to most. We chose Newark when we were a small group because it meant the newer players that didn't know about the restarts would see us and think "Hm....they look organized" and might join us.

I figured as much. Then again, don't you think you'd attract players just fine by doing.. "cool things" instead of parking on Newark, and making a name for yourself?

Plus, last time I mentioned new players in connection to the Judges, I was told you mostly had veteran players, and not that many new players, I think. What's the deal?

Ah, understood then. Hope that little trip through New York's sun didn't hurt business too much.

As for your question, to be perfectly honest its a mix of both. I apologize if you were confused and I imagine it was said in our faction creation page, where after all that was thrown at us we got defensive. We have new players join us, and some who have been around awhile or are just recently returning to Disco

[aerelm]

I don't dislike your group, and I don't even know you guys outside of your Judge chars, but I can tell you this much - I've disliked my every encounter with your group.

I have three reasons not to liking your group much:

• You don't seem to value fairplay. Whenever there's a fight, every Judge present decides to jump in without considering the odds first. Once I had a 2v3 turn into a 2v8 thanks to Judges cause I made the mistake of entering Newark scanner range for half a second, and they all came charging in without even asking the official [LN] members if they needed any assistance.
  
• You seem to consider yourself better than the others, as both InRP and ooRP condescension is what keeps comin to my mind every time someone mentions the Judges. You claim to know the rules better than everyone else, and yet most of your members are actually newbies and those of them who're considered "vets" in your insider groups don't have a good enough grasp on server rules and house laws either, which turns into a lot of rulelawyering after the fights - especially those they've died in.
  
• No offense intended, but it's the only way I can put it: You're sore winners and bitter losers. Regardless of the outcome of a fight, no matter which side of the blue message you end up on, you find something to complain about in PM afterwards. I haven't been involved in a single fight against a Judge where I haven't been either accused of cheating/lagging/having high FPS in cases when I've shot down a Judge, or been spamed with not-so-RP taunts and insults in cases where I got outnumbered and managed to make it to the closest base.

You're just a lawful version of the CGS from what I've seen. You might be playing by your own standards, but you should understand that your playstyle might not fall under other people's standards around here.

Oh, and yea... Whenever someone comes to you with a feedback, you accuse him of having something personal against your group, as you've accused me a couple of times ingame in the past, but as I said in the first line, I neither dislike your group nor even know you guys, I simply don't find you a likable group of individuals based on your behavior and attitude on your Judge characters.

P.S: I've always been curios... Dredd imports or just an awfully similar idea?

[Haste]

Ah, understood then. Hope that little trip through New York's sun didn't hurt business too much.

Heh. You were the one going through the sun, not me, or I'd have kept up >.>.

Either way, "That's why they call me the sun-surfer!" was a perfect response, and put a smile on my face, so I wouldn't say it "hurt business". Frankly, it was probably one of the (few) enjoyable encounters I've had with a Judge.

Oh, and yea... Whenever someone comes to you with a feedback, you accuse him of having something personal against your group

A thousand times this. Just because I dislike how you play out your faction, or because I've had encounters with you I didn't enjoy (and posted about them), doesn't mean I dislike you personally.

Regardless of the outcome of a fight, no matter which side of the blue message you end up on, you find something to complain about in PM afterwards.

Not as common as it used to be, but yes - I've been called a lagger, told I was "moving all over the place" (allegedly because of my FPS), and more things. Gets a little old.

[Tonto1911]

I don't dislike your group, and I don't even know you guys outside of your Judge chars, but I can tell you this much - I've disliked my every encounter with your group.

I have three reasons not to liking your group much:

• You don't seem to value fairplay. Whenever there's a fight, every Judge present decides to jump in without considering the odds first. Once I had a 2v3 turn into a 2v8 thanks to Judges cause I made the mistake of entering Newark scanner range for half a second, and they all came charging in without even asking the official [LN] members if they needed any assistance.
  
• You seem to consider yourself better than the others, as both InRP and ooRP condescension is what keeps comin to my mind every time someone mentions the Judges. You claim to know the rules better than everyone else, and yet most of your members are actually newbies and those of them who're considered "vets" in your insider groups don't have a good enough grasp on server rules and house laws either, which turns into a lot of rulelawyering after the fights - especially those they've died in.
  
• No offense intended, but it's the only way I can put it: You're sore winners and bitter losers. Regardless of the outcome of a fight, no matter which side of the blue message you end up on, you find something to complain about in PM afterwards. I haven't been involved in a single fight against a Judge where I haven't been either accused of cheating/lagging/having high FPS in cases when I've shot down a Judge, or been spamed with not-so-RP taunts and insults in cases where I got outnumbered and managed to make it to the closest base.

You're just a lawful version of the CGS from what I've seen. You might be playing by your own standards, but you should understand that your playstyle might not fall under other people's standards around here.

Oh, and yea... Whenever someone comes to you with a feedback, you accuse him of having something personal against your group, as you've accused me a couple of times ingame in the past, but as I said in the first line, I neither dislike your group nor even know you guys, I simply don't find you a likable group of individuals based on your behavior and attitude on your Judge characters.

P.S: I've always been curios... Dredd imports or just an awfully similar idea?

Alright, fair enough post. I'll try my best to answer it. And apologize for making you form that opinion of us.

1. Every one of us come from a mindset of never start a fair fight, we always fight with the thought burned into our mind that more are on the way and the quicker one threat is dealt with, fewer shooting at us later. Being on the OpFor in our training sessions however, I understand where you are coming and this will be something we need to work on.
2. Rulelawyering should never be accepted and I thank you for bringing this to my attention. We never set out with a "we're better than you" attitude, I guess it just kind of formed. Another good point that we should look into.
3.In all honesty, if you feel that we have crossed the line in PM, file a report. That is not a cop-out to just "Deal with it" (We don't work for Microsoft) A harsh, public slap will bring it to the others attention and he will also be punished inside our group.

I apologize again for the way we acted toward you in-game.

As for the Dredd import question, I'll send you a PM about it. Our origin might cause a slight uproar that isn't needed.

[Tonto1911]

Ah, understood then. Hope that little trip through New York's sun didn't hurt business too much.

Heh. You were the one going through the sun, not me, or I'd have kept up >.>.

Either way, "That's why they call me the sun-surfer!" was a perfect response, and put a smile on my face, so I wouldn't say it "hurt business". Frankly, it was probably one of the (few) enjoyable encounters I've had with a Judge.

Oh, and yea... Whenever someone comes to you with a feedback, you accuse him of having something personal against your group

A thousand times this. Just because I dislike how you play out your faction, or because I've had encounters with you I didn't enjoy (and posted about them), doesn't mean I dislike you personally.

Regardless of the outcome of a fight, no matter which side of the blue message you end up on, you find something to complain about in PM afterwards.

Not as common as it used to be, but yes - I've been called a lagger, told I was "moving all over the place" (allegedly because of my FPS), and more things. Gets a little old.

Hey, any port in a storm. Even if it happens to be a glowing ball of death. Anyway, I hope we can change it to where more people like interacting with us.
As for the feedback, I do understand completely, we did see it as personal attacks when we shouldn't have and I'm hoping this little session can clear the air in a constructive manner. As for the PMs again, its just not acceptable. Nobody needs to be called that when they are trying to rp, whether it be with words or guns.

[Hawk]

Aerelm makes some good points.

I have not had any experiences to make me hate the Judges. I really haven't had much experience with them at all and I still don't completely understand them. I think that might be driving a lot of people's frustration......they just don't understand what the Judges are supposed to be.

Let me elaborate a little and this is not just for the Judges, this can apply in many places. Many people are coming up with new and creative ideas to introduce new things into Discovery. While this is good, there are many factions with established role play already here. There are many factions built into freelancer that need players. Bringing something new in here is not always the best answer. I understand that it may have worked well on another server, but sometimes taking the time to see what is going on in this server community and what has worked here first and then decided how to get involved in the role play is a better idea.

What I've seen happening is groups wanting to create something new that doesn't completely fit the RP here. Sometimes, what they are trying to create already exists in some form in this community and doesn't need to be re-created. What happens is it then appears that you are creating an elitist group that feels it is better than the groups and RP already established here. Before you give me the knee-jerk, "no we're not doing that, and we don't feel we're better than anyone else" response realize that I'm not accusing you of doing that. I'm just saying that you are giving people that impression whether it is your intention or not. Perception is often more powerful than truth.

That's my opinion. You can do with it what you like. Again, I'm not accusing you of doing anything bad. I'm just offering my opinion of why some people may view you in a negative light.

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[Tonto1911]

Aerelm makes some good points.

I have not had any experiences to make me hate the Judges. I really haven't had much experience with them at all and I still don't completely understand them. I think that might be driving a lot of people's frustration......they just don't understand what the Judges are supposed to be.

Let me elaborate a little and this is not just for the Judges, this can apply in many places. Many people are coming up with new and creative ideas to introduce new things into Discovery. While this is good, there are many factions with established role play already here. There are many factions built into freelancer that need players. Bringing something new in here is not always the best answer. I understand that it may have worked well on another server, but sometimes taking the time to see what is going on in this server community and what has worked here first and then decided how to get involved in the role play is a better idea.

What I've seen happening is groups wanting to create something new that doesn't completely fit the RP here. Sometimes, what they are trying to create already exists in some form in this community and doesn't need to be re-created. What happens is it then appears that you are creating an elitist group that feels it is better than the groups and RP already established here. Before you give me the knee-jerk, "no we're not doing that, and we don't feel we're better than anyone else" response realize that I'm not accusing you of doing that. I'm just saying that you are giving people that impression whether it is your intention or not. Perception is often more powerful than truth.

That's my opinion. You can do with it what you like. Again, I'm not accusing you of doing anything bad. I'm just offering my opinion of why some people may view you in a negative light.

Hawk, thank you for your insight. In all honesty, I don't have a good response, so I will bring it to the other's attention and we will take it into consideration.

[Deeceem]

Since I avoid having any interaction with you guys, because my first impression was so bad I don't even want to meet you ever again, I can only talk about that single occasion.

You (and some other guy from a faction I can't remember sure enough to name it) were disrupting other peoples RP so badly and on a meta/oorp basis that it wasn't even funny and it made my RP partner I had at that moment leave the area frustrated.

Note: It's not that I'm mad or "hating" you, just a "no need" attitude from my side towards you. Like you know... if you wan't to engage someone with some nice RP and the first thing he writes is a "".

[Tonto1911]

Since I avoid having any interaction with you guys, because my first impression was so bad I don't even want to meet you ever again, I can only talk about that single occasion.

You (and some other guy from a faction I can't remember sure enough to name it) were disrupting other peoples RP so badly and on a meta/oorp basis that it wasn't even funny and it made my RP partner I had at that moment leave the area frustrated.

Note: It's not that I'm mad or "hating" you, just a "no need" attitude from my side towards you. Like you know... if you wan't to engage someone with some nice RP and the first thing he writes is a "".

I'm sorry that you had such a bad experience with our faction in this regard, unfortunately I can't recall this one instance, but I can assure you if any of our members are caught blatantly disregarding rp in a manner such as this then he won't be a Judge for very long. Again, I apologize for such a horrible experience.