Proposal: Remove Battleships from the Zoner ID.

[Thyrzul]

To the ones trying to expand this proposition to other factions:

1.) One of the toughest battleships in the entire game and a Sirius-wide ZoI... what's to stop me to "have fun" all around, wherever I want? I can freely roam the systems and shoot down the ones I don't like... oh, wait, there is a line on the ID... "can attack only in self-defense..." daaamn, then I must wait 'til I find somebody who will try to shoot me down for being where I shouldn't be. Then I shoot him down. That shouldn't be hard, right?

Good luck finding another ID with such an exploitable line than this one on the Zoner ID, and good luck finding another combo screwed up as much as a Neph with Zoner ID and ZoI. That's just the dream of the trigger-happy lolwuts.

2.) Make another thread for it, this one has it's own topic already.

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[Eduard]

....So when do Xenos and Commonwealth get their respective deathstars?

Anyway...

The way I see it, the only reason people want ( me included ) for zoner battleships to be removed is because you see to many lolwuts abusing the said battleships into trigger-happy fetish events and circumstances.

Despite the infinite lore flaws and carelessness the zoner caps demonstrated by appearing over the night to a faction that could never breed a new array of capitals over the night, the caps would be ignored if not for the lolwuts who use them.

Like Bret suggested, and others, maybe the most viable solution would be to make zoner caps less attractive for lolwuts? Those who used the zoner caps for the real purposes they were intended for would still use them with no problem despite the nerf it has, as the purpose was obviously not to be a trigger-happy battleship, and we will get rid of the lolwuts as well.

However, removing them, or perhaps providing a more adequate shipline would be a more drastic solution that would solve even the lore problem. Though drastic solutions are never viewed with good eyes and are always frowned upon even if they are good, profitable solutions. " The boldest measures are the safest " but then again, it seems like less and less of people these days like being bold.

The fear of something new, something drastic is ever increasing, and it's understandable, as a drastic solution can be accompanied by consequences of the same caliber, unforeseen consequences.

But considering the subject at hand, what severe, negative consequences would the removal of zoner capital ships possess? The simples consequence is: It would hurt both parties ( both the lolwuts, and the serious players who use them in the right way ). They invested time and money in it and no one likes to see such commodities wasted for nothing. Eventually, it will result in a number of players ragequitting. I'd still support such a move as it would solve the two problems ( lolwuttery and lore ) and the ragequitting may be circumvented by refunding the players ( though it will be a complex, complicated process, but I am only casting opinions and "what if" scenarios.

Nerfing them would be the best solution though. Lolwuts will stop using them, and the good players will continue having their fun.

So yes, just summarizing two ideas that were discussed and thrown my "neutral" opinions over them. Just a mere mask not to seem like I'm derailing the thread with a deathstar

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King Eduard is the greatest

[Hannibal]

@Ed-
You also forgot one scenario and that is the one you mentioned as lolwuts/ZA will probably get another ship/cap and continue where they left like nothing ever happened ,will we remove every cap ship ingame because of that?Or should we try and actually solve the problem and that is not the ships but the persons who do use them,i can't really say that more than 30% of disco players use their ships as they were intended to be..
*why not make a bet on what ZA will change to?
*1.Legates?Most likely since i see a lot of players keeping one for money/missions making..
What's will be next?

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People want to believe that God has a plan for them.
They don't wanna believe that anyone else does..

[Eduard]

@Ed-
You also forgot one scenario and that is the one you mentioned as lolwuts/ZA will probably get another ship/cap and continue where they left like nothing ever happened ,will we remove every cap ship ingame because of that?Or should we try and actually solve the problem and that is not the ships but the persons who do use them,i can't really say that more than 30% of disco players use their ships as they were intended to be..
*why not make a bet on what ZA will change to?
*1.Legates?Most likely since i see a lot of players keeping one for money/missions making..
What's will be next?

I agree but, in my defense I must say that a trigger happy liberty dread with an LN ID is not the same as a trigger happy zoner nephilim with zoner ID. A trigger happy zoner nephilim is way worse, in my opinion

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King Eduard is the greatest

[Occam Razor]

@Ed-
You also forgot one scenario and that is the one you mentioned as lolwuts/ZA will probably get another ship/cap and continue where they left like nothing ever happened ,will we remove every cap ship ingame because of that?Or should we try and actually solve the problem and that is not the ships but the persons who do use them,i can't really say that more than 30% of disco players use their ships as they were intended to be..
*why not make a bet on what ZA will change to?
*1.Legates?Most likely since i see a lot of players keeping one for money/missions making..
What's will be next?

I agree but, in my defense I must say that a trigger happy liberty dread with an LN ID is not the same as a trigger happy zoner nephilim with zoner ID. A trigger happy zoner nephilim is way worse, in my opinion

I agree. The Zoner ID was meant to be a rather peaceful ID, the Nephilim a Colony Vessel, and the Aquilon a Carrier. The only Zoner ship which is definitely made for combat is the Fearless. So I would also like to see the Nephilim get stripped down to a reasonable amount of weaponry for the defense of a valuable colony vessel.

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"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it."
René Descartes

[Hannibal]

I agree but, in my defense I must say that a trigger happy liberty dread with an LN ID is not the same as a trigger happy zoner nephilim with zoner ID. A trigger happy zoner nephilim is way worse, in my opinion

LN ID BS,that brings back some memories of one pilot joining GMG| with LN carrier/ID and other similar cases after BS were removed from this faction..i think it created more problems than solved..

*also GMG| registred a few zoner IDed aquilon/nephilim as well..because none check this sort of things..

zoner nephilim are quite easy to kill if you can TS a little,so..not much of a problem from a stats point of view,and from a RP point of view i just gave an example a above that's way worse and not contained to one player..
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=95253
one example i saw jumping with lots of ores from okinawa to new london.. "officials factions" are just not under watch after they were entitled in a higher position than indies
So..best solution is for admins to put some extra work and "spy"/punish a little on server

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People want to believe that God has a plan for them.
They don't wanna believe that anyone else does..

[Sabru]

So..best solution is for admins to put some extra work and "spy"/punish a little on server

while i agree in theory, in reality how do you expect them to do this while also doing all their other admin work and responsibilities?

hence the easier technical option of removing BSes from the standard Zoner ID.

I do also agree with Ed. A trigger happy lolwut nephilim with a zoner ID is much worse simply because of the lack of options for dealing with it compared to say... the house militaries.

a trigger happy LN dread can be dealt with by the Liberty goverment. Hell, even the sairs have some measure of means to reign in more...... wild indies.

Zoners, by definition not having any sort of cohesive structure, cannot do things like this. hence why a ZA style LN group would not have as much of an effect as the ZA have had.

Hence its also why the whole "do this for one, do this for all" argument isnt effective in this case. it doesnt really work because there is no other group slash ID that can compare to zoners.

the repetitive problems faced by zoners are unique to zoners, hence ideas like the OPs to put an end to the cycle of abuse and lolwutism that plagues zoners.

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[Hannibal]

hence why a ZA style LN group would not have as much of an effect as the ZA have had.

kinda did/does ,however we enjoy more popping the caps rather than spend your/our precious time[10-30 mins] to fill a sanction,when at the end of day if you have under 10 sanction that can be filled,your a lucky guy and just call it a night..

A trigger happy lolwut nephilim with a zoner ID is much worse simply because of the lack of options for dealing with it compared to say... the house militaries.

it's a matter of following server rules the one you refer it to[ZA of course],it should not have to be dealt with inRP consequence but rather ooRP consequence such as bastilles a week as warning and if happens again ,bye bye ship
*i believe the only reason it didn't happen is because players started shooting each other[*got killed by both sides] and confuse omicrons as connecticut,but even there there's still rules

Can attack lawful and unlawful targets in self-defense, to protect another trader, or in defense of Zoner bases.

something none seems to read nowadays ..

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People want to believe that God has a plan for them.
They don't wanna believe that anyone else does..

[Maddox]

Why not change the ID to "cannot fly capital vessels in house space"?

Since Zoner zoi is mainly the omicrons and omegas, that might solve the problem.

[Hannibal]

Why not change the ID to "cannot fly capital vessels in house space"?

Since Zoner zoi is mainly the omicrons and omegas, that might solve the problem.

1.we can not fly in houses or we can be killed according to house laws..
2.the problem is not in house space but Omicron-74

at least the zoner one,because it's not only limited to one faction/ID

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People want to believe that God has a plan for them.
They don't wanna believe that anyone else does..