Zoners - why they do exist?

[Jack_Henderson]

Then why exactly all fully justified attempts of GRN to take control over Java and Holman, at least on the stage of docking check iRP, are not yet happening? Not because you refused to do it for your own reasons?

Because a shitty storyline should not be able to eradicate factions just because they could easily.
Because gameplay would not profit from more unused GRN/GRP bases everywhere from Gallia to Leeds.

Anyway, have fun discussing.

[Timmy]

@Timmy, I pointed out they do not want IMG to be against them. We aren't talking about poor half-wit miners, but about a very powerful and independant non-house organization, which can fight pretty well in asteroid field (remember Rheinland Military and GMG?), not to mention they are able to poke their Crayterian and Libertonian friends. As I stated before, they need proxies, as Gallic resources are slowly no more.

It takes time and resources to train qualified miners, so the Crown doesn't really want to bother with IMG. Add up the fact that's Sirian tech and it would take some time to make station operational for Gallic miners and engineers.

Sounds veeeeery doubtful, but I guess I better not argue about it here.

[The.Wizard]

Lemme correct you:
- Bering and Hudson were actually annexted by Liberty.
- Tau-29 is controlled entirely by Kusari Republic, after Imperial's Tau War.
- Omega-3 is now the sovereign territory of Bretonia, after short-lived Rheinland-Bretonia War.

Conclusion: Freeport 1, Freeport 2 and Freeport 6 are no longer in independent space.

Freeports and Zoners were not reason for this wars.
Houses in question did not claime that space becouse they wanted freeports.
Thus stustus of freeports (and Zoners) didn't change.

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[jammi]

Interesting thing to note that a lot of people miss - Zoners aren't itinerant. They barely qualify as traders, so far as the portrayal of the original NPC faction goes. They form enclaves - incredibly tight knit communities - on Freeports outside House space, some of which being centuries old. People come to them to trade - they don't trade with others.

Why don't the Houses shut them down? Many reasons. Firstly it's difficult to prove conclusively what's happening onboard because of Freeport's legal positioning outside House borders. Law enforcement has to be proportionate and specific - in this case it means the Houses would have to identify who specifically is trading with pirates, not just which station is.

Beyond that, it's actually advantageous to have neutral figures that can act as go-betweens for unlawfuls and House authorities. For starters, if groups like Corsairs can be weaned onto a mercantile economy instead of a raider one, they cease to be a predatory threat to the Houses. The Zoners are an interim step that assists in that long term manipulation.

Secondly, when transports are hijacked, crew are taken hostage and cargo is stolen. Usually long distance freight cargo is specific and of no use whatsoever to whoever manages to randomly intercept it. Zoner Freeports offer corporations a platform to negotiate the return of their assets, as well as giving intelligence agencies a window to intercept information or insert agents.

Plenty of reasons the Zoners still exist. The better your imagination, the more reasons there are.

Don't quite get how is Gallia dependant on IMG any more.

They're not and never were? The reason the IMG weren't exterminated is because Gallia isn't a 2D villain out for the evulz. They have to collaborate with Sirians as the governors of occupied territories, and the IMG happens to be one of the factions that is actually willing to collaborate. The moment they overstep a legal line they'll be treated as criminals and expelled. Until then, wantonly wiping the IMG out is a great way to have accusation of genocide and ethnic cleansing thrown their way, which in turn would capsize any cooperation from Rheinland and Kusari.

Then why exactly all fully justified attempts of GRN to take control over Java and Holman, at least on the stage of docking check iRP, are not yet happening? Not because you refused to do it for your own reasons?

Except they absolutely are, and the IMG refuses to let factions hostile to the GRN stage off or use said stations for precisely the reason that the GRN is watching. The IMG willingly handed over FP4 to the LN because they were being placed in a diplomatically impossible position - if they hadn't done so themselves, Liberty would simply have annexed the station instead. The positioning was simply too strategically important for civilians to be allowed to jeopardise its security situation and potentially cede the installation to the enemy. No such scenario exists in the Taus.

[Doria]

Lemme correct you:
- Bering and Hudson were actually annexted by Liberty.
- Tau-29 is controlled entirely by Kusari Republic, after Imperial's Tau War.
- Omega-3 is now the sovereign territory of Bretonia, after short-lived Rheinland-Bretonia War.

Conclusion: Freeport 1, Freeport 2 and Freeport 6 are no longer in independent space.

Then let me correct you:

from the server rules post:

Liberty
Sovereign House Space: New York*, Alaska, California, Colorado, Illinois, Ontario, Texas, Virginia.
House Controlled Space: Alberta, Ellesmere, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania
House Outer Region: Alabama, Cassini, Kansas

[...]

Independent
House Controlled Space: Cortez, Hudson, Magellan
Outer Independents: Bering, Coronado, Drake, Galileo, Kepler, Humboldt, Inverness, Puerto Rico, Unknown, Vespucci

So, you see, both systems you mention are considered independent by the server rules, and only Hudson is considered partialy controled by Liberty, but still independent.

I know, you wil argue that you were talking inRP, but the RP actions in this case are limited by the server rules. The houses can claim all they want about a system, it will still be independent and therefore the military actions are limited. And, also, some player RP actually back up the idea of the systems being at least partially independent and they recognize the importance of the Freeports there, as houses militaries would have difficulties to mantain bases there.

Proof of that is the fact that Bretonia recognizes at least the area around FP1 as Zoner space, and respects and even enforce the no-fore zone there. In the same manner, last year the zoner representatives from Bethlehem and Freeport 2, together with the LN admiral, forged an agreement around the no-fire zones with strict codes-of-engagement, also recognizing the 'soveregnity' of zoner space around the stations. Even Kusari has left the FP6 alone, even as far as I know no agreement has been made there.

So, you see, besides being in most cases a 'stepping stone' for traders venturing to the edge worlds, they are also valious supply points for the houses themselves, and considered by all of them a 'necessary evil', so to speak.

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[The Savage]

Sounds veeeeery doubtful, but I guess I better not argue about it here.

It's more about common sense in here, as if you have someone neutal, why to have even more problems in already hostile system such as Tau-23. No army can win against the enemy which knows its own neighbourhood.

@Doria
Remember that majority of Militaries can act inside bordering systems, if we are speaking about rules. Check every house military ID. Liberty can act in a very same manner inside Kepler as in New York.

- Can demand contraband and levy fines within their Zone of Influence, and attack if ships refuse to comply.
- Can attack ships which are in violation of Liberty laws or belong to a house or organisation considered hostile by Liberty within their Zone of Influence.
(...)
Zone of Influence: Liberty, systems directly bordering Liberty, Hamburg, Leeds, Newcastle, Manchester, New London, Dundee

And roleplay-wise, Kepler and Hudson are entirely owned by Liberty, otherwise I'm not sure why I see Trade Lanes belonging to Liberty Navy. Just a small point here. However, I do agree, according to the Law Codex, they do not claim systems like Bering, but we all know situations, in which one thing is on paper, the second is in action.

[Doria]

re-read the system definition posts then. Even if inside their ZoI, there is so much they can do to enforce the house laws, if its not a house sovereign system.

For example, they cannot enforce their laws in bering via receibing a report. An actual LN player has to see it in a LN id ship.

[The Savage]

re-read the system definition posts then. Even if inside their ZoI, there is so much they can do to enforce the house laws, if its not a house sovereign system.

I never mentioned it is rule-wise a house sovereign system. I stated they PRACTICALLY have control over the system.

[Stoner_Steve]

Read This Post

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[The Savage]

Jesus Christ, people! I'm reffering to what is written in ID, not to server rules. I have NEVER stated that rule-wise Kepler IS Liberty. I stated it is just CONTROLLED BY LIBERTY.

In short, being able to fulfill national law in independent system is automatically assumed as space annexation, otherwise Liberty Navy has no right to demand anything in Bering.