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Sand-Viper · 12-17-2016, 04:40 AM,

I do like the idea of the Voyager having a jump drive slot, given it's namesake - even a survey module would be nifty.

I'm not sure how I feel about a freighter being able to SNAC people.. However, I would support a freighter with a low core capacity/high regeneration rate so that it could lob Nova torpedoes at people. Alternatively, it would be nice to see a few freighters with a single bomber gun slot so as to mount Hellfire Rockets.

About the only thing I like about the Camara is that it lacks a CD so that I can summarily flee from solo Camaras. ;-; They're as bad as fighting a Pelican, if both pilots know how to turret steer.

Perhaps some freighters could keep their guns and be able to mount codename weaponry, whilst others replace their guns with turrets. Some freighters, like the Correo, feel a bit weak from only being able to fire 4 weapons backwards. Then again, perhaps some freighters are meant to be more offensive than defensive?

Further, I fully support the idea of more satellites/solars that only freighters could land on! Special commodities sold only on freighter docking points would be a plus as well - it gives the little guy something to be proud of from an in character sense.

Shush Muppet · (This post was last modified: 12-17-2016, 05:02 AM by Shush Muppet.)

(12-17-2016, 03:56 AM)Felipe Wrote: My modest opinion is if want to change it, need to choose if ships will move in combat mode, as snub aux, or move to transportation mode.

(12-17-2016, 04:40 AM)Sand_Spider Wrote: I'm not sure how I feel about a freighter being able to SNAC people.. However, I would support a freighter with a low core capacity/high regeneration rate so that it could lob Nova torpedoes at people. Alternatively, it would be nice to see a few freighters with a single bomber gun slot so as to mount Hellfire Rockets.
...
Perhaps some freighters could keep their guns and be able to mount codename weaponry, whilst others replace their guns with turrets. Some freighters, like the Correo, feel a bit weak from only being able to fire 4 weapons backwards. Then again, perhaps some freighters are meant to be more offensive than defensive?

Based on these two posts, I would like to propose a split similar to the "Small Transport / Large Transport" categories.

Divide up the current Freighters into those that are more 'Transport' focused and those that are more 'Combat' focused. For the Transport-focused Freighters, remove their guns in favor of turrets and more defensive gadgets and better cargo capacity, and for the Combat-focused Freighters, keep their Codename slots and maybe even add more variety like the Hellfire Rocket Pods/Nova Torps and a small decrease to cargo size.

Rhino could be a good example of a starter 'Transportation Freighter'.
CSV could be a good starter 'Combat Freighter'.

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"Junker's Remorse" Feedback Thread

Croft · 12-17-2016, 12:18 PM,

Additional docking points and special commodities would put the freighter into a pretty singular niche and given the lack of popularity the current satelilte points have I'd wager not a very successful one.

I would suggest adding "fighter only" jumpholes instead, ones connected in such a way cuts down travel times for blackmarket stuff and other questionable items (refugees, fugitives etc) giving people choice between slow bulk profits or short quick cash-ins. Keep the balance against fighters and we have ourselves a fun little dynamic and if a few freighters are remodelled into piracy ships (perhaps paired with a bomber?) it could potentially boost cargo piracy, depending on how the aforementioned jumpholes are laid out.

Jimmy The Rat | Croft's Feedback | The Rat Pack

sasapinjic · 12-17-2016, 01:36 PM,

^ i agree with this .
Fighter/Freighter only jump Holes and Docking point only they can land and sell some expensive cargo would be good thing ( Like Black market amno to Leeds Bretonia rebels sells for 11000 , and if there is also Freighter Jump Hole that shorten distance from Berlin , Freighters will be in high demand ) .
As for changing abilities of freighters , in my opinion they are fine ( except few exception ) , there is more important maters to deal .

Spoiler

Thyrzul · 12-17-2016, 03:51 PM,

(12-16-2016, 10:00 PM)Antonio Wrote: What we are not looking for:

-"Freighters are trade ships"
No ship class that has 650 cargo space max should be balanced as a trade ship. They will retain their advantage as ships with the most cargo being able to dock on planet satellites.

Whether you believe it or not, though, freighters are primarily cargo ships. Jayce brought a good example of how the best tradeships are also the best pirate vessels, of course being good for combat and being good for trading are not mutually exclusive, yet even then the primary use of a transport isn't to shoot things but to carry things. Same goes for freighters, as you can see the significant size of cargo hold compared to other stats supports that notion well. (You can shoot things with many other ship classes anyways, but can't effectively carry stuff around.)

Whether they should or should not be balanced as tradeships I hope will not be decided by a PvP Balance Dev, inside the PvP Balance forums, but someone with a more related profession, like an Economy Dev, and somewhere else in a more relevant place.

Or what, do you want to make mini-gunboats out of them? What's next, rule amendment not to consider them tradeships anymore?

On the other hand it would be interesting to see something akin to the Heavy Transport Turret, but for freighters, some buffed toy costing extra cargo space to allow for more dynamic customisation and freedom for those who want their freighter to be a combat ship, of course without forcing combat stats on those who don't.

TheSauron · 12-17-2016, 03:59 PM,

I don't think it was mentioned here before, so I'd also like to point out that Council and Gallic freighters have subpar cargo holds, 370 and 400 respectively. I believe that buffs to those can be added with along with another upcoming patch or a small update, and don't have to be delayed untill the freighter reworks comes out.

One MD Admiral

**Antonio** · 12-19-2016, 02:22 PM,

Thank you everyone for your input so far. A thing some people misunderstood and I forgot to mention in the OP is that we're looking at it from a pvp balance perspective (which is why it was posted in this subforum) because there's only so much we can do as balance developers. Stuff like better routes or increasing cargo size is not our territory, nor our focus here. Those changes would have to go through our economy dev(s), aka @Xoria.

OP updated.

Inferno · 12-19-2016, 03:02 PM,

Add novas and FWGs.

Just kidding, I'm not sure about the other freighters as I don't fly them, but the Grizzly is fine by my standards. Maybe 16 turrets Nothing needs to be changed there.

Croft · (This post was last modified: 12-19-2016, 10:50 PM by Croft.)

Understood Antonio and I apologise for going off tangent. Anyway slighty more on topic, I went through all the various freighters this evening and jotted down a few basic stats including weapon arcs to get a rough idea of what each one could do or needed to be done.

Anki

The Anki is in a pretty good place, plenty of forward and aft punch but probably a little too easy to hit in any sort of fight. Dropping the class 9 and 10 slot in favour of two more turrets would make it a solid runner.

Annapuma

An abomination and an easy target from every angle, probably best to be remodelled. Could work as an anti-fighter/small hauler combo.

Aurochs

Nice slim profile on the Aurochs, an additional couple of guns up front would turn this thing into a pretty nasty interdictor for the GRP.

Bactrian

Good amount of grunt up front but the large face will be its downfall and with all its guns forward facing, its strength and its weakness cancel each other out. A slimmer front and exchange of a turret for another gun/missle might give it a piracy boost.

Camara

In a word, insane. Needs an upscaling and its turret placement altered because it has way too much going on.

Clydesdale

One of my old favourites, a slight hull boost to match the Bactrian's additional guns could make for an interesting rumble with the Molly's.

Correo

Good shape with plenty of guns and in a pretty good place, like all the combat freighters it needs something to help it threaten transports.

Courier

An odd one, its a smuggler ship for a pirate faction but other than that I think its in a good place.

CSF

Solid little runner with aft facing guns to cover a retreat, another good one.

Dromedary

Good all round little smuggler, could probably do with trading its forward guns for an upper and lower turret.

Drone

It's a bit of a box but its turret arcs are solid. A bit more hull or additional bots & bats would be good.

Garanchou

A weird ship that has all its turrets under the main hull, another one that could trade its guns for upper and lower turrets.

Grizzly

A tough nut with plenty of forward firepower and double CM's. More of an oversized VHF than a freighter, could be good for the LPI if that extra CM can be traded for something.

Humpback

Needs more hull to compensate for its huge sides but has good turret arcs, another one that would benefit from an all turret loadout.

Kestrel

This one could go either way, more guns for a pirate or more turrets for a cargo runner.

Ragnar

I'd personally rebrand the Ragnar to a pirate freighter and give it to the Unioners, drop the two class 9s for turrets and it'd make a nice death brick.

Rhino

The turrets need a placement change, anything but the front of this thing is a joke. I'd recommend moving one to each side so it can defend itself.

Sunburst

All forward guns with basically nothing to cover its back, could make a surprisingly good pirate if it had something to threaten transports.

Tarvos

Weird ship, everything is up front leaving the aft and sides hugely exposed and undefended. Could work with an agility boost or reshuffling of its turrets, either way its not got anything going for it with that cargospace.

Voyager

Good profile for a pirate freighter and plenty of bite, still needs something to hit transport with however.

For the pirate focused versions I think some form of shield buster so it can be useful against transports without making it a poor-mans bomber. Cargo piracy is still done better by actual transports so I figured it'd make more sense for a pirate freighter to with in tandem with a bomber rather than be upgunned to an insane degree.

Jimmy The Rat | Croft's Feedback | The Rat Pack

Greenhawk · 02-01-2017, 01:19 AM,

Lol! Nice to see Balance is as we oldern devs left it in 2009... good! Big Grin

I played freighters for last few weeks and.. its great! Best class of a ship.

Nothing to fix. Sure more power is good, but not really needed.

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