Zoner Sub Factions.

[RedEclipse]

While I dont like much Outworlders with their lore written in the IFF which goes against the history of relationship between Zoners and Corsairs, generally speaking dividing Zoners bases by region driven Zoner movements seems to me a good idea. It would let Zoner factions do their diplomacy in the way they like without interrupting the reputation of other Zoners on the opposite side of the map, generating another Zoner drama.

But I think keeping generic Zoner IFF is also a “must” option, some people stick with it and dont want to be concerned with any part of regional Zoners, aka Freelancers mk2 but in a Zoner way.

[Doc Holliday]

Having been a Zoner my entire Disco life, I always felt that we had a good system with a Zoner IFF and ID. Why change it? Zoners are loose individuals working together to survive. Depending where a Zoner lives and works will determine who their enemies are and how they deal with others. I'm blessed in that Doc Holliday has always had good relations with most. My vote? Just leave things as they were, one ID and IFF. The rest will fall into place.

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[MFE]Med Force One | Tales of Recovery|Med Force Enterprises

[Promotheus]

We would like more input on this matter.

So far judging by the reactions in this thread we have the following regarding sub factions:

Positives:

• Improvement Lore wise
  
• Personal diplo per sub faction is good (Base zoner rep as template with minor flavor adjustments)
  
• Eases diplo concerns/options with other factions
  

Concerns:

• Outworlders being hostile to almost everyone, what if this happens to other sub factions introduced.
  
• Sub Factions would need something more to stand out
  
• Going overboard and giving every station a separate IFF
  
• Disappearance of the vanilla Zoner ID/IFF
  
• If the players/factions don't change, why would this change have influence
  
• Preference for 1 ID and 1 IFF, this advocates that the issues the Zoner player base has (had?) are preferable over the issues they would have with Sub Factions and is a valid opinion
  
• Players would get spread out over more systems
  

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For the sake of transparency I would also like to add my own two cents on the matter so people know how to take what I've written above, unconscious biases are a thing after all.
Some of you might know I've flown for several Zoner factions, both OF and not, so please keep that in mind as well.

Sub factions are a good development for Zoners in my eyes. As @"Saronsen" pointed out one only has to look back at attempts that surfaced in the community where players wanted to fight back as Zoners to see the current system doesn't work for the IFF. They are very individualistic groups that, while still working together on some macro scale, certainly don't get involved in each others politics. Zoners in the Taus should be worried about keeping their local 'buddies' content so they can do their own stuff, not Corsairs, Hessians or Coalition (to name but an example).

Ideally (as I see it) the bases would be split over regional IFFs with the overarching Zoner ID/IFF being available for players that want to use it.
To continue the Tau example, FP 10 has the following rumor: "We get almost all our supplies from Freeport 6 in Tau-29. Most importantly, we receive Fertilizers for our biodome. In Return we ship Freeport 6 Alien Organisms from the Omicrons and Niobium mined by IMG in this system."

This indicates a clear cooperation between the two Freeports. Add in their proximity and I see no reason why they would need separate IFFs from each other. If FP-10 was ever declared war on by, say the Outcasts, then FP-6 would naturally be nervous as well.

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Now I would like to address several of the concerns raised as well. Please keep in mind this is my personal take on things:

Outworlders being hostile to everyone:
Yea, not the intention and a very frustrating aspect of the recycled IFF.
The intent of their diplo was to be more or less a clone of the default zoner IFF with inclinations towards Corsairs and
inclinations against Outcasts without being hostile to anything that the Zoner IFF wasn't.
The idea behind this being that Outcasts could still dock, do trade etc. but that Corsairs on the station would 'take care of them' on the station inrp.
Unfortunately this is not how this turned out thanks to the Guard IFF and it is certainly something I hope will be fixed soon.

Sub Factions would need something to stand out:
Several ideas were mentioned in the thread, I'll stick with IDs since it's the simplest to say something about.
I would argue with sticking with the basic Zoner ID and letting players form OFs to have their specific ID's for their region if they want to focus on rping there.
However I will admit there is something to be said about looking into making 'specializations' so we can get rid of some of the more
immersion breaking restrictions like docking restrictions based on ID/IFF. I think this is out of scope for now though.

IFF per base or system:
Zoners, including Outworlders, currently have 21 bases spread over 14 systems.
So looking per system that's 14 IFFs. Regional would be what, 6 including Outworlder?
I think that would be best for management/implementations sake.

And the last concern I'll give my 2 cents on before everyone gets tired of my wall of text,
If the players/factions don't change, why would this change have influence:
A while ago GMs 'FR5d' on behalf of several zoner stations, this caused quite an outrage in the community
(while, in all fairness, rpwise it made perfect sense) as that was not the job of GMs but of the player factions.
Which effectively did nothing, because they could not agree on what to do.
This change would give a great deal more flexibility to impose consequences both on and by Zoners,
which should hopefully result in less memes about Zoners being helpless because their hands are tied.

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TLDR: We would like more input on what the community thinks of Sub Factions for Zoners.

[Haste]

Just make (some) Zoners cool strong men who use a combination of diplomacy and being tough as nails (because they live on the 'frontier' of Sirius) instead of this silly pacifist approach, thanks.

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[RedEclipse]

I do agree with what Haste have said. Splitting Zoners by regions is what we would like to see: more freedom of the action with less drama.

[puppytaste]

Just make (some) Zoners cool strong men who use a combination of diplomacy and being tough as nails (because they live on the 'frontier' of Sirius) instead of this silly pacifist approach, thanks.

I do agree with what Haste have said. Splitting Zoners by regions is what we would like to see: more freedom of the action with less drama.

my name is puppytaste, and I support these statements

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[darkwind]

Just make (some) Zoners cool strong men who use a combination of diplomacy and being tough as nails (because they live on the 'frontier' of Sirius) instead of this silly pacifist approach, thanks.

I do agree with what Haste have said. Splitting Zoners by regions is what we would like to see: more freedom of the action with less drama.

my name is puppytaste, and I support these statements

and I disagree to agree

[Alvin]

Just make (some) Zoners cool strong men who use a combination of diplomacy and being tough as nails (because they live on the 'frontier' of Sirius) instead of this silly pacifist approach, thanks.

I do agree with what Haste have said. Splitting Zoners by regions is what we would like to see: more freedom of the action with less drama.

my name is puppytaste, and I support these statements

and I disagree to agree

Best example of Zoner-ism right here.

[Groshyr]

I'm supporting this solution while farming Hellfire Legion battlecruisers in my Nephilim parked in Penn, not far from Kansas jump hole

I really don't know if we'll have enough players to support each Freeport's/region activity at least at a minimal level

[Lythrilux]

It doesn't need players backing them. These IFFs are about managing consequences and drama caused and reducing the over-extending power of Zoner FR5 by splitting it. At the end of the day, at most we only need to see bases using these IFFs.

In fact, actually, I would suggest we still reserve a standard IFF for Zoners, but then use a different IFF for their bases.

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