' Wrote:Do you know that they still use the Barghest? Show me the character names. The faction status may simply be out-of-date.
You sure? Take a look at it. There are the new Hacker ships on the picture. There's also the OC Gunship and the new OC dessie. Don't think it's out of date as such.
In a brilliant tactical movement, i charged backwards.
Yeah the image is new rather than out-of-date I think. The barghest is something of a different bomber though, in fairness. Bit of a special case I guess. If the official LR faction have offered it to the official LH faction, then I think it's fine in that case.
The LR offered the barghests in exchange for a ship, but that was adressed to the Hellfire. Not the LH~ , so a few rp messages shall be sent, maybe they simply need a small reminder to re-read the lable.
edit: as for the problem at hand. Imho, factions need to use their own ships, unless in special occasions, like high ranks or desirable RP, for example we rogues have our own sammaels, which are lazers and such piss poor against shields, you need 4sec of shooting with 5 sammaels to down a vhf grav shield. Krakens and Wyrms would be more suitable for this, but we keep the sammaels, as that is Rp. That is the prize we pay for being in rp and so should the others "suffer" the lack for pew-power as well.
' Wrote:edit: as for the problem at hand. Imho, factions need to use their own ships, unless in special occasions, like high ranks or desirable RP, for example we rogues have our own sammaels, which are lazers and such piss poor against shields, you need 4sec of shooting with 5 sammaels to down a vhf grav shield. Krakens and Wyrms would be more suitable for this, but we keep the sammaels, as that is Rp. That is the prize we pay for being in rp and so should the others "suffer" the lack for pew-power as well.
I agree with this stuff. But I think that when there's a gap in the shipline for your faction, then you should be able to borrow. Like the Lane Hacker Gunship last version was used by Outcasts and such, because they lacked a gunboat-class ship, but it was expressly allowed on their IDs.
The barghest is kind of not-quite a bomber, so there's a case for that. But also, it is a bomber, so there's not. Welcome to big school.
' Wrote:It's good to know what ships a faction to use, but is there a chart that indicates what ships belong to which faction? What would be defined as a strictly civilian ship and a Liberty civilian ship? Does the deep space explorer have a specific faction even when its info card states it is widely used by civilians?
I've got one started for fighters, bombers, freighters, and transports. Capital ships are obvious, even most bombers are.
It's not official yet, nor do I expect it to ever be considering the rather impressive lack of admin input in a thread whose description explicitly called for it, but it should at least help.
Since when did every faction count their "technology" as secret and honored? I can understand not letting everyone and their mother use a Falcatta instead of a Barghest, or somesuch, but, really, things like the Barghest for the Lane Hackers, or the Broadsword for the Rogues, two factions which are allies, the Rogues by admiration and the LH by convenience (As far as I know) being unreasonable without paying a ridiculous fee or asking? That is ridiculous...
Sure we can say "We have awesome techlology in it!" or "We developed it, pay for it!" but, why? What happened to the trust between allied factions? What happened to the trust and common courtesy here? I might had only lead and been a part of niche factions, however, in my time of being here, I never remember anything being as secretive as everything is now. When the LWB faction status was written up, no one asked the Hessians if we could use the Odin, Thor, or Loki. They were our allies, and if our top ranking members wanted to use them, we had the means to get a few, in RP, and so we did. It's not a big deal and it never was. But now things that should hardly exist, like a Rogue Destroyer or a Hacker Bomber, make us all turn our noses at everyone else and say "No, it's my shipline! Get your own!"
Excuse me, but, what happened here? In this atmosphere, there is a NEED for every faction to have their own shipline. Do we really want that? Do you want an LWB VHF running around? Do you think the LWB has the ability to make a VHF? What about a Gaian VHF? A GC LF? An FA Gunship? Do we really need these things? Is it so hard to share?
I can understand the need to feel unique. The way to do that is through your individual RP, not your fancy shipline...
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.
Quote:* If the infocard states that the ship/weapon is not sold outside the faction, then no one without that faction ID may use it.
General Guidelines
Quote:*
Player factions may conduct diplomacy with other player factions to open up technology sharing in red cells of the chart. These must be approved as Special Requests prior to implementation. If the player faction represents the entire npc faction, then the technology sharing applies to anyone with the npc faction affiliation, otherwise it only applies to the player faction.
I think that these two pieces of information are unclear. They are taken from separate sections of the guidelines. In fact, just by changing the order that you list them completely reverses the ruling. That would be like saying that a Mercenary can't use a Manta because it's a Bounty Hunters ship. Further, all of this seems to lean heavily on pirates trading technology, who given their circumstances would probably be more willing to trade technology than house factions. If, for example, the OC's can't use the Liberty region pirate vessels, then what is the point of them being allies in the first place? Of course, there should be exceptions, such as there is only 1 spyglass in existence. Of course they're not going to share that tech.
I say, any equipment that does not have (restricted) on the "Owning Factions ID" should be readily available to their allies, because not only do their allies help them, the owning faction stands to make money by selling them to their allies. (by restricted, I am referring to pirate factions that have Cruisers (restricted), Battleships (restricted) in the available ships section of their ID and have their own flavor of those vessels.) In a war, you want your allies to be as strong as possible. Much of our aviation and naval equipment in WW2 was based off of british equipment. It had a few modifications, and was manufactured in the US, but it was still based off of the same thing. Or even better, the AK-47, manufactured by russians, probably the greatest assault rifle of all time, sold around the world, even modified and replicated. Lastly, the legend at the top of the technology use chart:
Green: May be used Freely (most of the ship/faction combinations in this thread fall here.) Pink: May use guns but not ships (Which is why OC use Bhargest)
<strike>Red: Prohibited without special request</strike> (We all know this is wrong and correct it quickly.) White: May be used only with posted bio/story (which is what many are suggesting is needed to use things like the bhargest and LH Gunship and such, even though for many, these factions are green)
I've not heard of any sanctions against any pirates using ships from friendly factions, most specifically the Bhargest. Therefore, I implore all pirates to keep using the technology as you see fit, until an official admin ruling is given. The Bhargest is the only bomber with 2 Torp slots AND a CD, and you want the only people who have the most powerful and broken ship in the entire game to be one of the only two pirate factions with any significant presence in the starting area of sirus? Psh! Whatever!
@sindroms: I personally think the Sammaels are the best weapon in the game, and intend to use them on my HF and VHF fighters that can fit them.
@Benjamin: How is the Bhargest not quite a bomber?
I agree, except about the Hacker Bomber. It makes more sense than a Hacker LF, they'd want their sensitive scanners and all that behind heavy plating and shields, which an LF doesn't quite qualify as to me.
Though I haven't changed my support of most factions having at least one ship that they can claim as their own, even if it's just a modified allied/generic model. I have a hard time believing the Xenos wouldn't modify an Eagle, for example by screwing with the generator to support more weapon power at a reduced shield class.
A lot of people would remark about factions having pride in their technology, to which I say this: Not everyone lets their pride overrule their pragmatism. There will be Outcasts, native and otherwise, who see the use of heavier firepower and armor such as the Loki and Werewolf respectively, and Rogues who appreciate the speed and subtlety (or at least speed:P) afforded by ships like the Falcon or Scimitar. And in-character there shouldn't be anything stopping them from using allied and neutral commercially-available ships. Now, militaries are exceptions to this, as is their nature, but even they could justify utilizing "modified" Eagles with military-grade armor (that is, armor upgrade 8) and military weapons.
For those who say everyone would just use Eagles and other generic ships, I disagree. If someone had their heart set on using six Sabres, they could just as easily make freelancers and mercs, which would also be the better way to go about getting one's PVP fix - military factions outside of Liberty don't have a fight readily available to them as often as mercs, hunters, Outcasts, and Corsairs.
Regardless of anything mentioned above, no members of The Lane Hackers (official faction) are currently using the Barghest. (To my best knowledge). Since we have 3 only people in the entire faction who can fly gunships and bombers. Yeah, three.
The Lane Hacker shiplist image shows allowed ships for each rank. Some are allowed, but aren't being used at all - Outcast gunship, Rogue gunship, Barghest, I don't think we have any Warans, and the number of Falcatas is very low, too. (don't know, and if I knew I wouldn't tell what the Assassins are using)
Ships sold on Hacker bases outside the guard system are considered "public". If you have a friendly / neutral reputation, you can have it. If it's not the case, you're probably out of roleplay. Now, since Vespucci is still under HF lockdown, ships sold exclusively there are not supposed to be flown a lot by outsiders, I think.
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