IAF (Independent Abolitionist Force)

[darthbeck]

And you will try to stop only transports with slaves, or with cardie too?
& hope this Fleet wouldn't sit just in front of Alpha, because not only Outcasts are using slavers.

I cant see wuselkobold doing anything in alpha, Except chasing a slaver. (Maybe. I wouldent do that, Because you'd get killed super fast by the outcast's there.)

And, If i understood him correctly on skype, He wont be doing any real combat in his battlecruisers. And he was doubtfull that he was going to buy a carrier.

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<span style="font-family:Century Gothic">Violence is Golden</span>

[finaldragons]

About the Zeph it's Current selling place is in Tau 44 wich is the Colonial Gaurd System.
So if you think of buying a Zeph better check with the CR first.

About the BC if you think ya need em to RP ya aint doing it right,but your choice.
And yeah killing lulwuts with it works untill they bring the BS's after ya.
Ya be better of with a group of Pytho's.

And do i read your map wrong or does it incl. Tau 44 as ZOI?
Again better check with the CR about these things.

What more? oyeah enjoy ,wish ya the best of luck ya will need it with some smugglers

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If i dont respond PM me i get lost in the massive amounts of posts here ..............

[Guest]

They didn't check Tau 44 as ZOI, they just checked it as a mineable zone. Though yeah, it's up to the CR to say if they can mine there or not.
However, the Zephyr thing is not the CR's decision, to be fair here.
Just because hardware is sold in that guard system, does not mean the owning faction can deny ship sales to properly ID'd and tagged characters.
That would be a gross violations of the server rules, as stated in Faction Rights and Responsibilities.

[Andrew Fletcher]

Just because hardware is sold in that guard system, does not mean the owning faction can deny ship sales to properly ID'd and tagged characters.
That would be a gross violations of the server rules, as stated in Faction Rights and Responsibilities.

Fail, CR is currently.. what was that.. neutural with IMG. No matter guard or not. Tau 44 belong to CR, means that Tau 44 is under CR controll and CR are making rules there... And since this ship is sold at Colonial shipyards and we are guarding them... well... you got the point, you have to contact with CR HQ first.. Right now there was no diplomation discussions between IAF and CR, so we deside to move our relations to neutural. Your ships are not realy welcome in tau 44(we will ask you nicely to move out) untill we will deal with diplo...

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[Guest]

Fail, CR is currently.. what was that.. neutural with IMG. No matter guard or not. Tau 44 belong to CR, means that Tau 44 is under CR controll and CR are making rules there... And since this ship is sold at Colonial shipyards and we are guarding them... well... you got the point, you have to contact with CR HQ first.. Right now there was no diplomation discussions between IAF and CR, so we deside to move our relations to neutural. Your ships are not realy welcome in tau 44(we will ask you nicely to move out) untill we will deal with diplo...

I'm afraid you're a bit wrong here. What you said does stand in normal RP relations.
What you are neglecting, however, is the fact that the Zephyr is a ship used by the IMG and CR, and is primarily an IMG ship even, and is only sold in Tau 44.
The rules and faction responsibilities clearly state that you CANNOT deny access to ships that should be accessible by characters with appropriate IDs.
Just like the IMG cannot deny the CR the right to use the Atlas transport, even though it is, oh wonder, sold on Aland Shipyard which is an IMG station.
Please, don't behave like roosters here.

Every Colonial and every IMG character can access all IMG ships for purchase, no matter where they are purchased.
If you deny access to ships like that, you may be subject to sanctions at the discretion of the admins.
Now I might be wrong, and if I am, I ask an admin to correct me.

'Till then, a piece of advice to the IAF and anyone else in a similar situation, if anyone, IMG, CR, or any other official faction denies you access to ships or equipment which is available for purchase by your ID and tag, you are advised to file a rules violation report and bring it to the attention of the admins.

Now let's not have it come to that, huh? It'd just ruin everyone's time, for both sides.

And furthermore, Andrew Fletcher, I find it very disappointing to see you try to bring Colonial RP to this level and these ways. I'm very familiar with the RP involved, and I didn't see any indications of such an outright hostile attitude of that particular nation towards others who may even be valuable help.
It just seems to me like you are on about RPing a 19 year old who's possessive about his pixels.

[Darkavatar]

They didn't check Tau 44 as ZOI, they just checked it as a mineable zone. Though yeah, it's up to the CR to say if they can mine there or not...

Its in the blue zone, mining and trading but in the case with Tau 44 its just trading supplies (didn't even know there was something to mine in there.) If the CR doesn't want us bringing them supplies then so be it. Lanquedoc is pretty much the same case. When the Council is official and if they want us not to do so we won't come.

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[Andrew Fletcher]

seems like you are not aware of the situation.
Yes we cannot deny docing rights of IMG players on IMG bases(But in T44 we can do that. Station belong to us, not our fault that this ship only sold in Tau 44....). But tho IMG removed our rights to dock on IMG bases, so do we. If you think that its the "one-side" thing, better think again. Still now situation is the same. IAF is neutural and are not welcome in Tau 44 untill they wold start diplo negos with us.

We are not denies their acsess to the Zephyr, they are not welcomed in Tau 44. Thats it.

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[Panzer]

I'll put it as delicately as my mood allows.

Despite obviously good intentions, the IAF could do with some humility. I wouldn't mind handing you a Zep, but your somewhat haughty behaviour. You cite RP? Fine... let's play RP.

All hardware produced in Tau 44 is of MILITARY purpose and the primary recepient of this hardware is the Colonial Fleet. Already every single Nyx is dspatched straight to the frontline and Singapore shipyards which is NOT a commercial facility is already too busy maintaining the fleet's heavier vessels. If you absolutely need a Zephyr for... whatever purposes, ask a commercial contractor somewhere else. If nobody has the right tools and assembly lines to construct Zephyrs... not my problem really.

Either way, according to local regulations, Singapore is a military facility. Unauthorized docking or even approaching it will result in the local security units taking up measures against the trepasser. Regardless of whom it may be.

Period.

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[Armageddon]

Now lets not get stressed here eh? The RP side of this dictates Zephyr's take a long time to build. I mean the =CR= has built 3 since it entered Sirius. Four if you count the Warhammer that now serves as a station.

Now if we could churn out One every couple of weeks we would not only have four would we? I am sure all final and Fletcher are saying in thier at least more flamey way is that with the things taking so ruddy long to build it would be very rare that one would be launched from another group. Combined with the fact that no two zephyr ships are never the same.

The building process of such a vessel would be slow, the colonials do not even have a Zephyr on the building blocks at the current time. So from the aspect of RP that we seem to be striving for here even if the CR were to build a Zephyr for the IAF it would take a long time before such a ship to be launched.

Now to finish, threatening factions/people with sanctions is not the correct way to go about things. It is not going to win over any minds that way. It certainly hasn't won over mine and has already coloured my opinions. There was really no need to jump on the old sanction hammer at this early stage. All that was requested by Finaldragon and Andrew Fletcher is that you would open negotiations with the Colonial HQ, Now definitely from an RP sense it would be required anyway as you need use of our shipyard to build such a ship. There was nothing said about REFUSAL in this as far as i have read back. They only asked for you to use what is considered a normal channel to gain access to our system.

Kind Regards, Armageddon, Fleet Admiral Colonial Remnant.

[Guest]

Now lets not get stressed here eh? The RP side of this dictates Zephyr's take a long time to build. I mean the =CR= has built 3 since it entered Sirius. Four if you count the Warhammer that now serves as a station.

Now if we could churn out One every couple of weeks we would not only have four would we? I am sure all final and Fletcher are saying in thier at least more flamey way is that with the things taking so ruddy long to build it would be very rare that one would be launched from another group. Combined with the fact that no two zephyr ships are never the same.

The building process of such a vessel would be slow, the colonials do not even have a Zephyr on the building blocks at the current time. So from the aspect of RP that we seem to be striving for here even if the CR were to build a Zephyr for the IAF it would take a long time before such a ship to be launched.

Now to finish, threatening factions/people with sanctions is not the correct way to go about things. It is not going to win over any minds that way. It certainly hasn't won over mine and has already coloured my opinions. There was really no need to jump on the old sanction hammer at this early stage. All that was requested by Finaldragon and Andrew Fletcher is that you would open negotiations with the Colonial HQ, Now definitely from an RP sense it would be required anyway as you need use of our shipyard to build such a ship. There was nothing said about REFUSAL in this as far as i have read back. They only asked for you to use what is considered a normal channel to gain access to our system.

Kind Regards, Armageddon, Fleet Admiral Colonial Remnant.

First of all, I'm not one of the IAF. You seem to've gotten the wrong impression there.

And I am not saying you can't forbid access to your stations to anyone. Far from it, you can forbid it to anyone you want to forbid it to.
But the Zephyr is an IMG ship. And that's just that. If it was a Colonial ship and Colonial alone, then I'd agree with you restricting Zephyrs to anyone who's not a Colonial.
But in this particular case, IAF bearing IMG IDs which are the primary users of Zephyrs, are allowed to take 500 Zephyrs if they can afford them, and neither you, me, the IMG|, or anyone else can forbid them from doing so.

Point of the matter:
You can refuse to allow anyone you want to enter Tau-44, but as long as the Zephyr is an IMG ship and as long as it is not sold anywhere but Tau 44, you CANNOT refuse anyone the right of purchasing a Zephyr.
You just can't.

You can rationalize it with RP or OoRP arguments any way you want, but it's a matter of rules and allowances, pure and simple.

I don't have anything against anyone here, I'm not on anybody's side.
But things are this way, whether we like it or not.

And even if this were not true, you would still be in bad practice doing things like this.
If the Colonial Remnant would want to restrict Zephyrs to anyone who has IMG IDs, then I'd point all Colonials to immediatelly sell all their ships which are sold on IMG stations, meaning you can have no Spatials or Atlases.
I mean, since you say yourselves the IMG has restricted your access to their stations.

You can't have a cake and eat it too.

Now I'd be happy to refer an admin to this thread to settle our doubts and questions so we can move on.

Edit:

And a small addendum.
It doesn't matter if you have only 3(4) Zephyrs. That does not solely determine how fast shipyards build battleships.
It just goes to show how much you need capital ships and how many credits you have under your disposal.
And if I remember correctly, the Colonial Remnant once RPed selling a Zephyr Carrier to the Zoner Consortium, that ship being built in-RP inside a period of two months.
Now Singapore's existed for around 5-6 years, which'd make it possible for a maximum of around 30 Zephyr Carriers.
Saying that it didn't always work at full capacity might somehow lower that number to 15.

Game mechanics =/= RP.