Notice: Bretonia and Kusari factions

[mjolnir]

But then if you dock, the enemies can proceed to camp the base?

Thought that idea was that in that case you don't turn around and come back.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[casero]

We didn't even think on Camping enemy bases.

Of course if you undock, and the enemy is there, you don't have to dock just because of that.


The intention is, if you are being targeted on a battle, don't run to hug a battleship, and once your enemies change target, come out and shoot again.

That's what we are trying to avoid.

Same applies for Stokes and the KNF cap NPCs that spam there.

[Coral Reaver]

On behalf of the [KPT] Faction, we are removing ourselves from this document effective immediately.

Our enemies are not abiding by what they have signed and as such, there is no reason for us to handicap ourselves.

Any arguments can be taken over PM should you have any. No further responses will be made on this thread.

[beunt]

I just had an insightfull talk with Montezuma about base hugging. When the corsairs (I take them as example since they came tonight) fly four system to face basehuggers they think it's no cool and they're right. When the brets undocks to be strongly overwhelmed and are afraid of a potential gank they think it's no cool and they're right too. More generally, swap the player base of each side, or even put them in completely different faction and past a certain amount of repeated experience they will experience the same.

It's a matter of communication again, especially when no oorp talks come to balance aggressive RP people from any side get mislead. The BAF got the point clear about the gank issue and made considerable efforts to sort the matter out. Camping at a base - I stress that I'm not writing about using it as a weapon for an actual fight willingly triggered - was addressed tonight and shed light on the frustrations both sides face in that situation. Believe me, that particular issue was brand new, and now we can work on that too.

This agreement lost a member tonight but I invite those who remain here to stick on it and work on it better. I don't think we lack for good willed people, but clearly the context we play our factions led us to different theories on the disco experience, and let's say it, different cultures.

I mean it : what is obvious for some people is not for some others.

I think it'll be healthy for each part to explain here his own view on what is right and what is wrong in general, what is justified in PVP with respect to RP, without flame nor any justification about those opinions yet, to pimpoint where the cultures clashes. Something may come out of this or not, but in any case it will help to understand the mindset of the opponent. We're ennemies only on the battlefield after all.

So, I talk too much here and I'll post my opinions later. On a final note I propose to invite leaders of some unofficial factions here too, because the official factions aren't responsible - both in terms of guiltiness and influence - for all of the problems here. If you agree on that - only if you agree - I'd invite Rubber Duck from the Convoy and Fallen Knight from the BRF, and propose your relevant people too.

Well, to who shall I give the mike now ?

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[Coral Reaver]

I promised I wouldn't reply to this thread, because I expected a flood of posts to come in about petty arguments.

But I will make this simple. I have been here since the start of 4.83.

And from the Role-Play change that came with 4.84, when Kusari became hostile to Bretonia I have witnessed these tactics being used. The specific combination of the 10K fleeing rule with stationary battleship hugging in an attempt to exhaust the enemy players until they have RL-matters to attend to or simply log out of sheer boredom/frustration. This isn't something new. It is not a day old issue, not a week old issue, not a month old issue, not even a year old issue, it is a years old issue.

I'm tired of talking, asking, begging and giving inputs in feedback threads.

You may perceive this action of ours as you wish. But I'm done discussing. We will play our fights our way. You can play yours any way you want. If one of my members whine in your feedback thread from this point on about any fight, they will be kicked.

By the way, that document Wolf Ghost posted, it was I who wrote it and it was I who brought all the Kusari/Bretonian leaders to discuss this issue. Clearly, my last attempt failed.

[beunt]

Well Sina, the point is to understand here why the Dublin foces relied on these tactics. Is there a gene that turn Bretonian into freaks unable to pvp correctly ? Unless I'm wrong there is no reason for that, there is no reason for them not being understanding. Many play in different factions and so far there is nothing to complain about them.

So why is there a problem in Bretonia specifically ? Or more precisely, in the Bretonia-Kusari or Bretonia-Corsair interactions ? Do every player drop their brain and sensibility once they switch their characters ? I can't believe it possibly to happen. The problem is a difference in the implicit ruleset every one designed for himself. So we must dig it further.

You made your point very clear on multiple occasions about what you think to be wrong with Bretonia, but not about what you think being right in general. If the different factions differ on what is right, then we have a problem. That's that kind of thing I'd like we focus now, i.e. something new.

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[Coral Reaver]

I see what you are trying to tell me. About the general atmosphere and attitude that have given birth to these specific problems. But if the issue existed so far as back in early 4.84, are we to assume the same hostile player atmosphere existed back then between Kusari and Bretonian players? I can't answer that personally, as I wasn't a Kusarian player who was hostile to the BAF. I was more of a Reaver Mercenary and a Molly Independent.

But let us provide with some different perspectives.

For example, you got the [LN] who have also received complaints about stationary battleship usage, you know exactly how to use it against players with the 10K fleeing rule. Now, they also received complaints and they too, just like the BAF justified it because they felt they were getting overwhelmed by enemy forces. Alright sure, but that's one of those "sometimes" scenarios. You don't always get overwhelmed by enemy forces.

But you don't see the [KNF], the [LN] or the [RM] utilize these kind of tactics.

You got the [LN] who you can relate to about being overwhelmed with enemy numbers and have the membership base that could rival your own faction. So you are on exactly the same terms, yet the [LN] have strong player-guidelines that are supervised constantly by superiors to make sure their members fight on a reasonable level, in every way. In terms of numbers, in terms of firepower, in terms of tactics being applied.

I'm not asking for much, I promise you that if you make sure your members either decide to fight or retreat properly. That almost 90% of the complaints will disappear overnight. These whining about numbers, is not a fair complaint towards your faction and neither are the capital usage. And as such, if I have ever complained about them I can tell you right now, I was wrong. Since everyone does it sooner or later. Nobody is perfect in these regards. But there are some specific tactics that some factions use, and are known for, while others are not. And that, is in my opinion a fair complaint.

[Rubber_Duck]

okay. in fact, I sign that immediately. But.
In my personal imrpession, it has gone worse since Bretonia cap usage was restricted.

Okay, maybe we got less of KNF that were arguing about capspam, and so on.
But we got many more BAF ID'ed folks doing that.

Why cant we just play this? Some day, the first faction looses, some day the second one does.
The only thing we should avoid, is staying on stationary "helps".

We can form there, of course. But when a battle is commencing, however the numbers are, we should go to free space and fight it. Damn, just fight it. Who wins? I dont care, personally. As you know the devs, and that it wont inflict the storyline at all. We play a RP game, of course. So no one blocks us of having a proper and funny RP before being killed. Isnt that the reason why we are here?

So, why the hell do you care about numbers? If KNF appears, with 3 BS, and Bretonia has only 1 dessie, and some fighters. Okay. then Bretonia looses out of the beginning. Its in the defensive postion. You can plan defenses properly, only with luck!
And if some day, Bretonia may send 3 gladly appeared BS agains a fleet of 1 BS and some snubs.. Hell god. Then it is that way. Then they got it organized very well.

In my opinion, there is no need to worry longer then your own death takes. No matter who is involved, or if it could have been different, with other persons taking part or not taking part. You cant change the actual situation, thats it! So make the best of it!

greetings

Rubber_Duck

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[Curios]

Problem is, whatever we discuss again and again, argue, trying to find a source of our problem - we are not getting anywhere.

Only solution is to get rid of all stationary capitals and swap them into police border stations or so.

Of cause in terms of RP it's ok to have stationary BS. But when it comes to fights, people always run towards it once targeted and you know how BS sprays shots when there is 5+ people around it.

There is always someone who will do that and the issue never will find it's solution until there is a possibility to hide under protection of BS.

For some reason Bretonia is worst of all houses about that, reason is unknown for me but there were cases when people ran to stationed BS 50k+ on thruster or even from another system just to call his opponent coward after that. Of cause that lead only to the bad feeling on both ends.

So far i see only 2 solutions.

1. Remove stationary BS completly.
2. Well, leave them be but nerf\remove completely guns to the ground so people will dock instead of camping it.

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[Cond0r]

So far i see only 2 solutions.

1. Remove stationary BS completly.
2. Well, leave them be but nerf\remove completely guns to the ground so people will dock instead of camping it.

Or:

3. The sissy boys who run to the BS for cover actually dock on it and retreat properly, or they can just man up and die if they are too incompetent to stay alive by means that dont include camping a BS.

But running to a Battleship, flying around it, and then calling the other side coward, really? I mean, its so dumb that its funny.

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[17:23:05] Mini Me: pls
[17:23:06] Mini Me: gtfo