Lets talk Galileo and Cassini

[crimecities]

Anyway, if you can find five people who trade to Cassini or even Padua or Leiden from another base, I'll pay you fifty million credits. I'm there every night. No one trades.

One can actually take MOX from Rochester to Terra Haute Shipyard in Cassini for a 481 credit profit. If a transport is headed up there anyway to refit or something, why travel with an empty hold?

[RockCrystal]

I've heard that the sell prices on San Quentin were set the way they were at the request of the LR- official faction when their guard system was made. Don't you think you should check in with them before messing with anything in there?
Also, you should have seen it BEFORE I made a Scylla to blow up Cassini interlopers. At least half those ptrans had Hacker or indie Pirate ID's.

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[BaconSoda]

So what you're saying is that if the Reavers become official, and we petition to buy the Omicron-64 system, and then petition for Cardimine, Blood Diamond, and Artifact Transports to spawn in sector A8, and then when we put a base in D4 and have them all sell for 1150 (the average of Galileo Goods sold in Cassini), that would be perfectly okay because we designed the system that way?

Well I disagree. Regardless of who intended it to be that way, it's not a healthy phenomenon. That's why the Phantom guns which did Archangel Damage with Kraken efficiency that Del suggested don't exist. That's why Kuraine's Red Cat Orchid doesn't exist. It would be harmful to the server, therefore it does not exist, regardless of what the faction wants.

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[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
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[Dab]

I've heard that the sell prices on San Quentin were set the way they were at the request of the LR- official faction when their guard system was made. Don't you think you should check in with them before messing with anything in there?
Also, you should have seen it BEFORE I made a Scylla to blow up Cassini interlopers. At least half those ptrans had Hacker or indie Pirate ID's.

As I've said repeatedly in this thread, and even hinted in a most obvious way to Snoozzzer, I am not touching the Cassini system in any way. I'm changing the NPCs in Galileo. I'd be doing it either way, as part of the NPC spawn system redesign I'm doing, but it's always best to make sure I don't leave a problem like this one.

Regardless of that though, LR's request should've actually been denied. Igiss' guidelines for Guard systems is that they do not contain profitable routes or other money-making devices. While the routes guideline was slightly bent to allow for more activity in guard systems, they are not supposed to be as profitable as normal routes. Put simply; Guard systems are not supposed to be a source of credit-making for the factions that own them. This is because they are too secure. They are for setting up ships/equipping, and for training and practice.

LR should've received larger-than-average prices for goods among their non-guard bases, so that they can sell goods from cargo piracy (this is true of most pirate factions). Whoever approved the larger prices in Cassini wasn't following the guidelines, and probably also wasn't made aware of this NPC cargo piracy problem with Galileo.

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[Curios]

1. NPC farming being a problem - For me it's not.
2. Jump hole to guard system being placed retardedly closed to pirate spot - It IS problem. Same goes for Hogoshas running to KNF guard system from blood dragons with their pirate transports and then sitting on station BS there.

Solution - > Move all guard system holes to the places where they can't be used not properly and\or in abusive manner.

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[chopper]

...and probably also wasn't made aware of this NPC cargo piracy problem with Galileo.

There's no problem. Why are you bothered by people shooting NPC transports to earn money?
You can easily calculate it, it's way less profitable then regular trading or smuggling.
It doesn't hurt nobody, it brings people to shoot those same pirates...
So, what exactly is the problem?

I'm way more bothered by random OC dreads over Holman's Outpost shooting loads of Kusari battleships to farm Fleet admirals.

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It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del

[Mickk]

Interesting indeed.

Galileo and Kepler both, are interesting places.

Both have jump gates on either side that are owned/controlled by either Liberty or Kusari.

Jump Gates are expensive pieces of equipment and having those two systems relatively safe for people to travel in is an important thing for both Liberty and Kusari.

Maybe the Liberty and Kusari government might get together and think of a solution to the problem.

How about having Liberty and Kusari forces do some sort of patrols near the gates in those systems?

Of course, part of their duties might also be patrolling of the lanes.

I'm just throwing an idea out there and hoping it sticks in somebodies head.

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[Xoria]

This problem is a combination of the commodity drops from npcs and the prices for those commodities in Cassini, both of which I can do something about.

The reason the prices are high in an absolute sense is that the Cassini bases are so far from the origins of those commodities. The commodities with high prices are being sold primarily to Liberty, but Cassini is much further from their points of origin than Liberty is. Even though the rate of return is much lower to transport gold (for example) from Dublin to Cassini (no sane trader would do this), the absolute price is higher because the end price is a function of time. In algebraic terms, if P is profit, T is time, and R is rate of return (profit per unit of time), then P=TxR. If you hold P constant but reduce T, then R increases, which is the scenario that Baconsoda describes: it is very profitable to loot gold from npcs in Galileo and sell it in Cassini, even though it is a waste of time to take gold from Dublin to Cassini.

I suspect that the commodities carried by npcs in 4.85 are basically holdovers from vanilla almost everywhere, and have never been updated (except where they didn't exist in vanilla). They certainly weren't updated between 4.84 to 4.85 due to changes in the mod's economy. The Gallic npcs loot drops were custom designed with the economy in mind, so there's no problems there.

So, the commodity drops from npcs in Galileo and Kepler ought to be goods that are produced in Kusari and sold to Liberty and vice versa, not items from Rheinland or Bretonia, like gold which is produced in Bretonia and shouldn't be found between Liberty and Kusari. I'll also take a look at the absolute prices and adjust them to be sufficient for loot sales without being too high in an absolute sense like they may be now.

Dab, before you do anything, you need to talk to me first, because I already completely rewrote all the npc cargoes for 4.86 last year and submitted it to Igiss. What we probably need to do is edit which corporations show up in these border systems, rather than trying to approach it from the standpoint of specific cargoes. In any case, I'll take a look at the commodity prices, and that will mitigate a great deal of the unbalanced effects.

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[Daedric]

There's no problem. Why are you bothered by people shooting NPC transports to earn money?
You can easily calculate it, it's way less profitable then regular trading or smuggling.
It doesn't hurt nobody, it brings people to shoot those same pirates...
So, what exactly is the problem?

I'm way more bothered by random OC dreads over Holman's Outpost shooting loads of Kusari battleships to farm Fleet admirals.

Read for Christ's sake. No one has a problem with NPC farming. The issue is NPC farming with no risk and no interaction with other players. This has been said several times already in this thread. Had you read the thread instead of merely trolling you'd know this.

What is being asked is that a risk be associated with NPC farming in Galileo. IE, moving the jump hole to Cassini to such a distance from the farming spot as to make it a risk to farm there. Same as the other NPC farming spots are.

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[chopper]

Read for Christ's sake. No one has a problem with NPC farming. The issue is NPC farming with no risk and no interaction with other players. This has been said several times already in this thread. Had you read the thread instead of merely trolling you'd know this.

What is being asked is that a risk be associated with NPC farming in Galileo. IE, moving the jump hole to Cassini to such a distance from the farming spot as to make it a risk to farm there. Same as the other NPC farming spots are.

Actually, I did read, thank you very much. What you are saying is "No one wants to destroy NPC piracy, we just want to make it way less profitable by moving the jump hole to *insert how many solar systems away*".
So, basically, you do have a problem with NPC piracy.
Also, I was cargo pirating with loads of interaction in Galileo, thanks to tons of traders that go trough Galileo and Kepler to Kusari, or from Kusari. Hell, Pumpernickel going there shooting them is interaction. Without cargo piracy there he would have no pirates to shoot for his bounty board.
What you are trying to do is make NPC piracy so lousy that it will become a dead system.
And all I'm asking is why so much fuzz about another way to earn money, which is still considerably lousier then trading or smuggling?
And btw, it actually promotes freighter usage, for low rank players.

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It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del