Liberty Rules

[Matsuda-Shingen]

That's more like it, their more likeley to pay if the fine is less.

lower fines=less deaths=less arguments like this one

you can't lose:D

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Captain Mal: "Do you wanna run this ship!?
Jayne Cobb: "Yes!"
Captain Mal: "Well...........you can't"

[kingvaillant]

for the fines and stuff like that you gotta talk with SA high command

agree that the fines are really big and expensive, it was even more when SA was making the list... Managed by arguing to drop the fines on some stuff.

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Director of the Liberty Security Force: Fidelity, Bravery and Integrity

The Amundsen Zone-21 Restrictions

[MB52]

For my LPI, I use those as an upper limit that I will NEVER hit. In fact, I think the highest fine I ever gave out was like 150k or something.

My Cruiser, doesn't give out fines, you drop the contraband and destroy it.. and I'm happy to leave you to go your own way.

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I’ll carry this flag
To the grave if I must
Because it’s flag that I love
And a flag that I trust

[Zapp]

If the LPI come to ask me what to do about those silly fines, like a level 12 guy in a Patriot "Impersonating a Police Officer", I say just look the other way. Hell, I don't enforce any of this stuff... the silly stuff, anyways.

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[Magoo!]

I concurr... The fines are way too high. And at least the admins don't benefit from the fines. These people will probably make like, 20 mill each day individually. It's not quite fair. I mean, really. Let's say each commodity is a crate. An entire CRATE of food (rations) are what... 30 credits? Most people who... Bought their son a new ship for their birthday? Might get a recomissioned, outdated Patriot for example. Now, theoretically the computer systems would still be spouting off "LPI!" if the mechanic who re-po'd it sucked at his job. Who, taking their new present for a joy ride, is going to have X-mill?

But I suppose I'm the only one that thinks that deep into role play.

Also, will the LSF be fining eachother? Half of them that I see have LPI or Navy tags... If they want to be part of some shiny clan... Or... Faction they should at least be willing to work for the tag. Not just, "Pop! Okay, here's your 20 mill starting wage." *hour later, new guy apprehend artifacts* "Wow... You've done well with us. Have a cruiser."

Sorry for my biased view of the situation, but thats the way I see it. It's a rather well known fact that I dislike the LSF. And ironically its all my fault... But lets not get into that!

Adeiu.

[sn!p3r]

Magoo, please just hold your grudges to yourself.. i don't give everyone in LSF a cruiser, Hell, we only have 4 capships in the entire =LSF=, anyways lets not make this thread about how you don't like us or how im not good enough for this community to run a faction ive been working my ass off for 6 months to make good..

Anyways, back on topic.

the fines are way to high, imo its just asking for more PVP, which really is a bad thing. because no one is going to pay up.. you will see more "id rather die than pay"

[Kambei]

How do you want (LPI, LSF...) inform new players about your ban? Of course if you want inform them... they can be rich gold mine right?


btw something for fun:

Impersonation of a Police Officer

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[mwerte]

Offical Transmission from the Law Offices of Carmen Naso
Priority: 1

"Madam Sophie,

The Law Offices of Carmen Naso is interested in taking on the LSF/SA/and any others you can think of. This is a clear case of abuse of power and heavy handedness. Also it is an infringment on Free Speech and Freedom of Religion. (//Liberty is former USA, im assuming these principals carried over//) If you would like me to take this on please reply to this message or through the secure "mwerte" subchannel."

Carmen Naso
Transmission End

------------------
Offical Transmission from the Law Offices of Carmen Naso
Priority: 1

"Command of the LSF/LPI/SA

Your tactics are becomeing totalitarian and are oppressing the people. It seems you have forgotten who you serve. Cease and dissist before I am forced to take more drastic mesures."

Carmen Naso
Transmission End

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[Praetyre]

Right ho.. the idea that the military freely sells their ships is, in my opinion, ridiculous. No military in the world sells submarines to civilians, and logically, the Liberty Navy doesn't sell Gunboats or goodness-knows-what-else to anyone with a credit card who isn't blatantly hostile. It's a game mechanic, like non-High Command people being able to use the Alaska jump gate. As some have pointed out, if you can't use the Magellan one, how on Manhattan are you going to get through the Alaska one?

Furthermore, the fines were read, reviewed, vetted, reduced and approved by 4 different people (namely, the individuals RPing as Brian Copeland, David Copperfield, Richard Woolsey and Christina Robinson) at various stages of their development. I wrote them, but I didn't have the final say, they did, and they approved it. I merely posted the agreed upon final version.

Obviously, in some cases, common sense has to be applied. If someone is using 1 ton of counterfeit software to represent a holy book, then prosecuting them for that is fairly ridiculous. Admittedly, using contraband to represent what is really not illegal was somewhat of a bad idea if you travel in the houses, but certainly, the over zealousness of some officers in applying the law is also at fault here. In all honesty, though, it actually makes sense from an RP standpoint.

Zoners left the Houses because they thought they were all fascist flat foots. If a Zoner thinks that of Liberty, then that's actually good RP.

However, if someone is smuggling, giving them a 1 million fine is patently ridiculous. They can make several million per round on a good trade route, and there are real life bails set higher than this. I know this, because I run the BLS and semiregularily smuggle, making around 10 million per round. The fines are intended to simulate jail time, which is otherwise impossible to implement within the game engine.

Honestly, people are impossible to please. You let the independents run loose, and people complain they are oppressing the masses. You try and reign them in and make them accountable to a single system, and people complain you are oppressing the independents and the masses. It's a penal code, not a Boy Scout disciplinary guidebook. It's SUPPOSED to be unreasonable, harsh and disciplinary. That's the whole point.

If the fines didn't deter people, people would carry on commiting illegal acts because they can afford to do so. It would be a mockery of a justice system, like giving double murderers a slap on the wrist.

I can make around 9 mil in about 10 minutes on a trade run. Imposing penalties that can be recouped in such a short time is, frankly, nothing less than silly. 15 mil actually takes time to reearn, and so actually deters people from commiting an act. How does imposing miniscule fines on people do that? You can argue all you want that they won't pay, but really, what's more worth your while? Paying a fine you can recoup in about 20-40 minutes, or being hunted in Liberty?

Why is it that people complain when Liberty objects to wanna-be cops trying to police our space, yet they don't bat an eyelid when the RM or KNF does it? I know Rheinland is supposed to be a fascist state, but really, theft of vehicles and impersonation of officers is a law that applies everywhere from China to Switzerland.

If you have a problem with the fines, take it up with the people who have the final say. Turkish and sdssn!p3r. I don't have that power.

Rheinland has 8 million penalties for all contraband on the first offense, and death for the 2nd. Now, look at our 45,000 and 450,000 for Synth Marijuana. The RM once ORDERED ALL LC capital ships grounded for flying Rheinland Cruisers, and nobody complained about it.

Liberty is a libertarian Jeffersonian democracy, but there are certain laws common to any nation, and stealing and identify theft will get you booked for a long time whether it's Nazi Germany or Galt's Gulch.

This reminds me of Badger's piracy debate, actually. http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...;p=148872&#

As he so well put it;

If income is all you're worried about: I know of at least 7 legal trade runs that make around 8-12 million in twenty minutes, and I've only been back in Disco for a month or so. Even a lower paying route could net you 10 million for half an hour's work.

I think that common sense needs to be the prime ingredient in these laws. People who are cooperative should get no or lower fines. Some fines, in retrospect, are too high, and I aim to discuss lowering them to more manageable levels (the 150 mil to 30 mil, for example)

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[sn!p3r]

I really like the penal code, Just one suggestion.. of making the fines that are 150 mll to maybe 40-50 mil?