Corsairs, Outcasts and Krieg

[Jihadjoe]

Sigma pirating grounds, cardamine and the sabotage of the Hispania (of which they blame each other). Corsairs bear a grudge against Outcasts that comes partly from cardamine addiction and partly from the fact that the Outcasts got the fertile planet while the Corsairs got the lifeless rock. Outcasts on the other hand have a smug sense of superiority owing to their slightly above average physical abilities as a result of cardamine addiction, and also the desire to control Sirius through their supply of cardamine - which they know the Corsairs don't want to happen as it interferes with their sense of independence and pride. Add to that reinterpretation of facts between the two over what actually happened on the Hispania, and you got yourself a feud.

I'd suggest your interpretation of the OCs's situation is a little wrong. I'd suggest they're in just as much of a fix as the corsairs, because while they've ended up with a fertile plant, it's one they're physically tied to. If anything unfortunate happens to Malta's ecosystem, they're basically screwed. Wherever an outcast goes, they gotta take a little bit of malta with 'em. Romantic, but I can imagine it'd be incredibly annoying, and means that their influence is limited.

As for the OC/Corsair war, yeah it's largely a turf war, and it's largely over sigma pirating grounds (which never actually get used, annoyingly), and keeping clear smuggling routes to each of the four hour houses. Most of those smuggling routes should run through the Sigmas.

As for the OC/Corsair war stopping? LOLNO. It just needs to be fought in the proper place, Omicron Eta was a mistake, but it's down to the players to do something about it. Start smuggling through the sigmas more, both sides... Start pirating in the sigmas more. Get the GMG out to play, cause some chaos, have some fun. Organise stuff, have events.

The turf war in the Sigmas is really not the same as "raid each other's home system once a day".

DRV, wars don't just end. They have to be fought to a point where one side is willing to accept the other side's terms. The idea of both nations is that they're proud, equally matched, and have been unable to crack the other one for centuries. Wars don't end for no reason, in much the same way as they don't start for no reason.

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[Tibbles]

What's the cause of this never-ending war?

I'm quite new here, so i do not know all the lore, every week i learn something, also the original question has been already answered i think, but if you permit me i'll put my 2 cents about the future relation Corisar - Outcast:

The Corsair - Outcast war needs to be put to an end. Regardless of whatever else.

There's really no point to it...

Basically everything is better than meeting in space and knowing well...we have a war...but nobody has a REAL reason to fight it any longer.

It was never supposed to be a full-scale war, just occasional fights in Sigmas when they meet each other.

As for the OC/Corsair war, yeah it's largely a turf war, and it's largely over sigma pirating grounds (which never actually get used, annoyingly), and keeping clear smuggling routes to each of the four hour houses. Most of those smuggling routes should run through the Sigmas.

As for the OC/Corsair war stopping? LOLNO. It just needs to be fought in the proper place, Omicron Eta was a mistake, but it's down to the players to do something about it. Start smuggling through the sigmas more, both sides... Start pirating in the sigmas more. Get the GMG out to play, cause some chaos, have some fun. Organise stuff, have events.

The turf war in the Sigmas is really not the same as "raid each other's home system once a day".

After reading this comments i think that we need imagination (new ways to interact against an enemy - Black market competidor - "ugly cousins from the other side"):

What about switch from a open great scale war to brawls/ecenomic enemies (artifacts vs Cardamine)/Thugs to the "cousin"...
I'm thinking of establish some kind of game mechanics to allow players to have more RP possibilities, so what about:

• Erase blanket boutnries about each other.
  
• Eneable more subtle bountyes:
  • Corsairs puts a recompense for every cargo pirated ship with cardamine at Sigmas (If the ship is an outcast get a bonus)
    
  • Outcast can do the same with artifacts
    
  • As you can see this will allow just a piracy action or, if the convoy refuses, a brawl
    
• Eneable also not bounties but jobs:
  
  • What about outcast tries to get cardamine to southern freeports of omegas? So pay a recompense to smugle cardamine at Freeport 5?
    
  • On the other hand Corsairs could pay to delivery Consumer goods or onther stuff to, for instance, supply Etna base? Or maybe start mining artifacts there and try to reach Sigmas Via Outcast territory?
    
• And of course if the corsairs - Outcast meet at the space a brawl can take place but keeping in mind that is a territory brawl so maybe when one party flies the other, instead of pursue, can rest there "soft swearing" the oponent?
  

Let's share our imagination senores! (maybe in another thread due the original question was anoter Dodike?)

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:: The orbitals faction information :: Recrutiment :: The scrap Jungle :: Brixton market auctions :: The Club ::

[Slavik]

I agree with Jihad, the war should continue and eta was a mistake.

Little Roger has some nice suggestions that I full agree with. One should not forget however that the corsairs are numerically superior and therefore can actually fight a war on two(three) fronts without suffering to much from it(won't win it like this, but they can hold their ground)

They are in direct conflict with the casts in the sigmas and in the omegas they battle it out with the hessians, who however, should get some support from the casts lorewise, in terms of gunrunning etc. The Hessians take a big chunk of the cabailities of the corsairs out of play for the outcasts .

The entire alliance between blooddragons, hessians, rogues and mollies however went to far and killed the lifeblood of the corsairs completly and I am glad to see it go down the drain.

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There used to be pictures here

once known as Richard Farbridge, OBE and Ronaldo Benitez

[Veygaar]

Why you ask? Cause it's fun... That's why.

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Veygaar for Admin Moderator 2013!!!

[Blodo]

Guys, you need to start thinking outside the box for the whole Outcast vs Corsair conflict. The Outcasts and Corsairs aren't the "be all end all" unlawful factions in Sirius, there's plenty of forces in the core worlds that can handle themselves, and plenty of other stuff that happens between unlawfuls without Hispanian involvement.

Hessians and Outcasts have no contact with each other. It's doubtful they would ever, as getting into bed with a drug cartel generally means you never leave (look at the Lane Hackers). For a faction as big as the Hessians this would have far too great consequences, which is why I always said that alliance was stupid from the beginning, and why I advocated getting rid of the "anti Corsair alliance" that polarised literally half of Sirius in a huge super alliance that ended up choking the lore of at least a couple of factions.

The Corsairs are a bit like the Orks of Sirius. They are numerous, they have no shortage of new fighters. The reason why they haven't yet become involved in a full scale war with any of the Houses is because of a single thing: a lack of strict organisation that is a direct result of their food supply problems. Corsair groups are mostly autonomous from each other, they end up being spread across the majority of the south of Sirius because of this. This is why the Hessians offer resistance, because for their smaller numbers if put against the total population of the Corsairs, they still outnumber the Corsairs in the Omega systems by a decent factor. Of course the war remains in a relative stalemate anyway, but you see my point. An individual Corsair would probably be more concerned overall for the well being of his own small group than the entire Corsair empire, unless something drastic was happening like Crete itself being threatened.

Going back to the original point of this thread: the Corsairs in the Sigma systems would be mostly pirate parties. The Outcast groups would either be smugglers or pirates. They would probably roughly be on equal terms in the Sigma systems. The main fight would be for the lucrative trade lane that Sigma-13 is supposed to be. The other one would be the aforementioned Atka Cardamine substitute research thing. What I would like especially is making the Sigma pirate problem a bit more pronounced than it is right now. Make the KNF worried about both the Outcast and Corsair build up. The Sigma border worlds should by all means be the Hispanian playground as opposed to deep, hidden away Omicron systems.

[Mímir]

Wherever an outcast goes, they gotta take a little bit of malta with 'em. Romantic, but I can imagine it'd be incredibly annoying, and means that their influence is limited.

I agree that Outcast influence should be limited for obvious reasons, but I find it rather odd if cardamine should be the source of that. Swap 'cardamine' with 'food', 'water' or 'oxygen', and see why that argument could be used for any human faction in Sirius. Moreover with Sirius flooded with cardamine provided by the OC, it would also be odd if any OC would have a hard time re-supplying cardamine while in the field.

I'd rather say it is the relatively low reproduction rate and the fear of losing valuable OC lives (which count for more for the nation in general, compared to other factions - simple supply/demand logics) that puts a cap on the OC influence.

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[Prysin]

RM and RHessians
BAF and Mollys signing peace treaties.

according to Blodo, Hessians dont care about Rheinland at all, they just wann fight the corsairs.
BAF and Mollies did have a treaty, a quite peaceful one too, not sure what made it crumble though

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DHC Discord

[Agmen of Eladesor]

One thing I see missing here in this cry for peace, love, and rock 'n' roll is one fairly minor, relatively unimportant in the whole grand scheme of things, that just might in some teeny-tiny way influence a peace process.

Nomads

I'm not saying that ALL Outcasts feel this way, but enough do that there are also religious implications regarding the 'Great Spirits' to keep in mind as well. Remember that of ALL the groups and peoples of Sirius and Gallia that there is only ONE group that is not infected BY Nomads that is not red instantly to the Nomads - Outcasts.

So they're not just cast out by the Hispania - they're cast out by humanity itself. Keep that in mind as well.

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Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.

[blubba]

I advocated getting rid of the "anti Corsair alliance" that polarised literally half of Sirius in a huge super alliance that ended up choking the lore of at least a couple of factions.

You did?
This is the leader of the Hessians who has agreements with Mollys, Bretonia, SCRA, LWB and just about all the merc groups that operate in Sirius?
The person who is at the centre of the anti-corsair alliance?

The Corsairs are a bit like the Orks of Sirius. They are numerous, they have no shortage of new fighters. The reason why they haven't yet become involved in a full scale war with any of the Houses is because of a single thing: a lack of strict organisation that is a direct result of their food supply problems.

Oh contraire mon amie. They are very organised and fairly single minded. There has not been enough real time yet to assemble the extra ships needed for these inavsion fleets. Currently, Corsair raiders are not only gathering food, materials and sirius credits. They are in the market for intelligence as well. Crete does not have the luxury of a group that can move throughout Sirius' lawfuls unchecked like the Gauls did/do. Whats more, I do believe an assault was made on Rheinland some time ago but was eventually stopped in Frankfurt by an impressive performance from a numericaly inferior RM (maybe someone else here has more info on the TBH invasion of Rheinland?)

(Hessians)....still outnumber the Corsairs in the Omega systems by a decent factor.

Pardon?
Omega 49 has a PLANET with a not inconsiderate corsair population on it, as well as all their bases throughout the Omega's. Just where is this huge population hiding exactly or have the info cards been tinkered with again?

An individual Corsair would probably be more concerned overall for the well being of his own small group than the entire Corsair empire, unless something drastic was happening like Crete itself being threatened.

Your assumption is incorrect. Not probably but definately. Even if it were, there are currently two or three raids a day into Gamma within scanner range of Crete itself by numerous Hessian allies/employee's and that alone would be enough to galvanise the populace.

Guys, you need to start thinking outside the box for the whole Outcast vs Corsair conflict. The Outcasts and Corsairs aren't the "be all end all" unlawful factions in Sirius, there's plenty of forces in the core worlds that can handle themselves, and plenty of other stuff that happens between unlawfuls without Hispanian involvement.

This thread is about the Corsair/Outcast conflict. That is the box and the room the box is in.

With regard to nomads, it just gives the Corsairs further moral reasons to continue their conflict. They alone, as a race have to contend directly and daily with the nomad threat as they are already present in their home system, as well as several systems bordering it. I won't mention the Order debacle where it appears they 'forgot' that issue as this is about corsairs and outcasts.

The dislike exists and has existed for a long time. They are 'the old enemy'. The 'war' isn't so much a war though as a series of skirmishes executed with a great deal of prejudice. Where they meet (and there are few places), conflict is almost always inevitable. I believe that long should it continue in that vein. They should be more concerned with spreading their influence financially(Outcasts)/militarily(Corsairs).

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[Joe pineapples]

You did?
This is the leader of the Hessians who has agreements with Mollys, Bretonia, SCRA, LWB and just about all the merc groups that operate in Sirius?

I am really not sure that you are supposed to point at the elephant that is in the room....

I must admit to not entirely understanding why the war continues. If it is simply a turf war then it seems that the Corsairs are fighting over systems full of rocks for the most part, which is not likely to result in any significant real gains of any sort. Why bother?

It'd make much more sense if the Corsairs went and kicked those that live on the nearby habitable planets off of them. It would solve their resource shortages in a single afternoon, and allow them to have food supply security (and other resources) going forward.

The real purpose of a war should be to ensure safety and security going forward. Fighting a group across the other side of Sirius over pirating rights in systems is of little real value in the overall scheme of things. It amounts to little mopre than a squabble...