' Wrote:/*Quote from the Vanilla junker faction infocard:
Anyone who deals with the junkers knows that they live by a strict code; if you're not a Junker, you're not part of the family. A Junker will double-cross you without a second thought, and they're fiercely protective of each other.
I believe that should take care of the "backstabing, disorganized lot" argument.*/
We backstab others, not each other. We don't traditionally follow a leader because we have grown to dislike and, in rare cases, fear the rigid class system visible in most house populations and corporate entities. The Junker Congress, with its mild-mannered and nearly structureless form of leadership, is revolutionary in that it allows us to keep almost all of the freedom that we are used to while providing a vast increase in collective safety, friendly diplomatic relations, and personal profit margins. This comes at a time when common pirates masquerading as Junkers are prowling the house systems; a time when we need someone to stand up and voice who we are and what we believe in.
//Tink, I hope that blurb fit your RP as well as mine, sorry if I misrepresented us in any way.
Wow--considering that we have spoken not at all about the deep rationale behind the faction, that was incredibly well put and exactly right. Excellent!
IMHO--a Junker will stab you in the back in a minute but think of it more like the stories where people get a wish from a genie or make a deal with the devil--the grantors of the wishes keep their word--but they keep the letter of it.
the restrictions on capships you make are good ones. this way there isn't some secret army lurking around raising tensions from the local neighbors. me likey
' Wrote:the restrictions on capships you make are good ones. this way there isn't some secret army lurking around raising tensions from the local neighbors. me likey
What!? Someone told you about the SECRET army?! Now you must die!!
Just kidding, thanks. There go my plans for total Sirius dictatorship :nono:
Everybody is just nitpicking right now. I too am of the camp that you sound a tad official for junkers then I remembered JC/JM who predate you. Comon guys you have to accept that this is leaps and bounds better then that? To my knowledge there is no current junker faction and I think he has the right idea.
I'm not nitpicking, Nexus, we're discussing. Remember that I'm just giving you some friendly feedback based on my opinions here...Take it, or leave it. It's your faction. I'm just trying to inject some of my ideas into the discussion.
@ Blue Shift, as you can see, the Junkers seem to organize themselves around one part of their entire conglomerate. True, they might not backstab each other...but is that isolated to Kreutzberg Junkers? or Rochester Junkers? What happens if you mixed the two groups together?
My opinion about the backstabbing was not based entirely off the infocards, but also my assumption that the Junkers are - for the lack of a better word - the mafia.
There are different families, but when threatened, they group together. In my eyes, the .:j:. is more or less a permanent get-together of the heads of each of the junker "houses," Yanagi, Rochester, Tripoli, Kreutzberg, etc...
@ Tink: The rank thing. To be perfectly honest, I don't think that Junkers would understand the names that you are coming up with. Sure, they sound grand and all, but the thing is, too grand can often seem played-out and in a sense, foolish.
Business does define the Junkers...but what kind of business? Racket? Smuggling? Gun-running? Scrap collecting? None of these exactly involve such a high level of education.
Quote:[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<
Quote:Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?
When you make a PLAYER faction, you are going PAST the NPC behavior--to do things they don't do.
NPCs are two-dimensional. If I wanted to be the perfect NPC Junker it's easy to set the faction rules:
1) Find an npc CSV, scan them, note their equipment and dock the nearest Junker base.
2) Buy a bribe for them, buy everything they had and undock.
3) Form on one of them and follow them around. Shoot only at what they shoot at.
4) Get the ID when your rep rises enough.
Poof--you are a perfect Junker.
We are forming a player faction--based on the Junkers we see and the scraps of info we have about them and then adding our own personal character's direction to it.
The Junkers, "Tinkerbell" and "Oniros" had an idea and desire to motivate Junkers in a more expanded way. They made a proposal and invested time and money it. They were able to gain allies and supporters.
The NPCs won't change one bit. The faction is for players--Junker and non-Junker. The info cards and NPCs wont tell us what to do--we have to do things ourselves.
To assume all Junkers are paranoid, hostile to others, uneducated, mafia like and completely untrustworthy and to accept that as "all there is to Junkers" defeats the purpose of a faction in the first place.
And how you feel could very well be how some Junkers feel in "real life" (in the game). Some are excited by the prospects, some are suspicious and some don't get it. We aren't redefining Junkers--we are playing a group of them that are exerting their own influence. That's pretty realistic actually.
The issue isn't whether or not the faction is "perfect Junkerism", its simply, "Could there be a group of Junkers that might do this?". The answer is, "Yes--we already are." We are Junkers and the idea of the Congress isn't implausible or extremely ridiculous. The only concerns to review are to make sure it doesn't hijack or unbalance everyone else's game. Those are valid concerns. Other Junkers can play however they like--the Congress can even be completely ignored by them. We haven't changed their game at all.
I chose "congress" because its how most nations start before they are nations. Its democratic and in its inception is like an invitation to form a referendum. I didn't chose "empire" or "government" because that presumes I have a mandated effect on other Junker players. We don't. Its a group of Junkers exercising their prerogative to work together but forcing no one to do it or subscribe to it.
We aren't asking for a change in server rules to accommodate us either. No special weapons or ships. Everything we are doing gear wise can be done by any Junker right now. In fact, they could do even more.
We are networking and in exchange for public recognition are proclaiming limits and restrictions on ourselves to make it friendlier and nonthreatening to others.
' Wrote:None of these exactly involve such a high level of education.
They also don't necessitate an absence of it, thus (for our particular characters at least) it falls into the realm of creative liberties.
' Wrote:Business does define the Junkers...but what kind of business? Racket? Smuggling? Gun-running? Scrap collecting?
Again from the infocards: "The Junkers make their official money from salvaging debris within the fields, but also have a good deal going with various criminals, who like their "no questions asked" policy. Tolerated by the governments, Junkers sometimes deal in contraband, though they are extremely hard to catch red-handed. They are frequently patronized by the criminal elements for the refuge they offer within the often hostile territory of house capital systems."
Player Junkers generally combine this with knowledge and presumptions about the independent nature of the Junkers to justify mining, gun-running, and sometimes lawful trading, smuggling, or just plain old exploring.
' Wrote:Also, if you have ever flown a Rhein, they may possibly be the biggest silhouette and target size ship in the game. Every shot hits them. the noise is mind numbing.
My biggest concern is getting younger players to rp realistically--cap ships are the lesser issue. if we have good rpers, you won't see cap ship abuse.
If you've ever flown a Rhein, you'll also know that it's probably the best battleship in the mod, too. If you want a Rheinland capship, go for RH pirate cruiser, it looks more junkish, quite possibly re-assembled from other rheinland caps, and won't make the RM get to murderizing you. I understand that junkers could easily pull out all of the pieces for a RM battleship, but they don't have the plans for it. They'd piece it together by what they thought should work, seeing themselves as better engineers than the original designers (read the infocards, the elitism is pretty obvious).
As for the Firefly, it fits with junkers perfectly. Go for it.
Ok, the 'it's sold on our base' thing is getting pretty old, too. You know that example about Kurile, a Samura planet that sells Vengeances? You know what else it sells? The Anubis Order Very Heavy Fighter. If you can tell me honestly that Samura has a right to it because its sold on their base, you're hella deluded. The same goes for a few other ships, like, oh, how the Collector is only sold on Junker bases, yet Hogosha are supposed to use it too despite being hated enemies, or that the only place you can buy RH capships are on corporate bases... so can Daumann use them then? Even the ones allowed by the ID? Hell no. You buy stuff based on RP, not on where it is. Disco has its quirks, don't sacrifice RP to them.
For weaponry, loot it. Junkers are ragtag, so give them one thing here, another there, and the only thing I could reasonably expect you to mount more than one of would be A) Barragers, they're spammed by your NPCs, or B) Transport turrets, as there are no viable alternatives. Even your gunboat stuff should be ragtag, go for a pair of basics, maybe a Liberty, maybe a missile turret, you get the idea. Oh wait, junker gunboat is the mining ship... nvm that bit.
Oh yeah, if you REALLY need that battleship, go for zoner juggernaut. Despite being from Battlestar Galactica, it kind of looks the part. Not that you really need one, after all, who the hell would it ever fight?
![[Image: Tink_Shadow.png]](http://junkers.worldstrider.info/images/Tink_Shadow.png)
![[Image: SCRAgenderheuristics.png]](http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd343/sovfalcon/SCRAgenderheuristics.png)
