This is Exactly what I mean.

[Robert.Fitzgerald]

I think YOU are over-exaggerating the entire situation by believing that admins sanction depending on the whims of faction leaders. Admins sanction players who break the rules, not the personal targets of "clan oppressors".

By the way, if clans only recruited people they like, how come completely new players get into factions? The RHA themselves has had a few new players come into the fold, did we pick them to form another "nner circle"? NO.

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~Gateway Interstellar~ Gateway)Gibraltar
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[Reverend Del]

You two are just over exadurating my words and you both know full well what I'm talking about.

You are right do , Del. Only one thing I don't agree with , RP is not everything for you faction leaders and thats is something that you know , it's 50% of the whole deal to like the person and to let him join the clan , only the other half is for his RP positivities.

I could invite you to the LR chat for a while, you'd see how many folks in there I didn't have a clue about before I accepted them into my ranks. It is about RP but I agree not 100%, but if 75% of my members think you're a jackass and don't want to fly with you, then out you go, even if I like you. For me it's just as much about ensuring my faction stays active and alive, that we give people a chance to see an active Rogue faction in the first house you start in, I think that it's equally important for Liberty to have it's unlawful factions represented as much as it's lawful ones. I don't often speak to my faction applicants before I read their application and accept them into our ranks. in fact seven out of fourteen of our active members I would not consider myself friends with before they joined up. The other seven all submitted applications in RP and were accepted on that strength and that strength alone. Perhaps I'm a purist, but I'd be damned surpirsed if that wasn't how most factions did it.

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Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.

[Equinox]

I would say 90% of all new brotherhood members are indie players who have only just joined the server or have been around abit, almost all of that 90% are people the Elders of the faction do NOT know ingame, the first time we talk to them is in the application thread or if a indie talks to us ingame and we tell them to post in the application thread, it has absolutely nothing to do with if there friends with someone.

Im getting sick of all this Factions are only out to get indies BS, ask any Corsair indie in Gamma if they feel oppressed from the factions that own that space.

The problem here is a few people seem to have got it into there heads that theres some big conspiracy going on between faction and admins, TBH have an admin in our faction and we get treated the same as any other player on this server.

Funny thing is this all came about with a few factions restricting the use of cap ship flying indies in there space (endorsed by the admins) and by cap ship flying indies i mean the ones that don't RP whatsoever, the thing is if you fly a cap ship and RP ingame you haven't got a problem, this is a RP server after all so if you have no intention of RPing what the hell are you doing here in the first place? so RP abit and all is well, but no thats too hard and restrictive for some people so now we have all the BS on the forum.

Another thing that makes me laugh is how done to these indie cap flyer's really think they have it, try joining a faction and getting a cap ship, faction players have much more of a hard time getting a capship but the fact that indies have to RP in there ship is way to much for some people, THIS IS A RP SERVER YOU SHOULD BE RPING ANYWAY.

Now stop crying about how hard done to you all are and play the game on the server like its supposed to be "RP".

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[Laowai]

Im getting sick of all this Factions are only out to get indies BS, ask any Corsair indie in Gamma if they feel oppressed from the factions that own that space.

I'm a corsair indie... and no, the factions there do not oppress me at all....

In fact - after my little rant the other night, if anything, the factions feel oppressed by me... :$

The Benitez lads know what i mean.... My bad...

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http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/3289/...047770.png

[Dopamino]

I think factions should have the right to politely ask indies to register their ships, etc, but I don't think they should have the right to kill the indies if they don't do what the factions want.

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I mostly lurk around Media Center these days.

[Capt. Henry Morgan]

Now, I can't speak for any other factions, but I can tell you that the XA has absolutely no problem with independants whatsoever. We don't consider ourselves to be the entire Xeno movement, so there's a lot of room for independants. We often fly alongside them and have a lot of fun in the process, and we treat them as equals.

As for needing to be in good with the leaders, that is definately not true. I didn't know anybody at all when I filled out my XA application. I flew a couple indie characters before that, but nothing major, and I didn't get on anyones radar, since I was still new to the server. When I was flying indie, I didn't feel stepped on by any factions, either.

Now, what the XA does do is try to lead by example. We always try to stay in character, and we always keep our loadouts in RP. Basically, if you want to know how to properly RP a Xeno, take a look at an XA player. Personally, I think this has worked, as I've noticed an improvement in the quality of indie Xenos since we came on the scene.

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Natio Octavarium
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[sovereign]

Now, I can't speak for any other factions, but I can tell you that the XA has absolutely no problem with independants whatsoever. We don't consider ourselves to be the entire Xeno movement, so there's a lot of room for independants. We often fly alongside them and have a lot of fun in the process, and we treat them as equals.

As for needing to be in good with the leaders, that is definately not true. I didn't know anybody at all when I filled out my XA application. I flew a couple indie characters before that, but nothing major, and I didn't get on anyones radar, since I was still new to the server. When I was flying indie, I didn't feel stepped on by any factions, either.

Now, what the XA does do is try to lead by example. We always try to stay in character, and we always keep our loadouts in RP. Basically, if you want to know how to properly RP a Xeno, take a look at an XA player. Personally, I think this has worked, as I've noticed an improvement in the quality of indie Xenos since we came on the scene.

THAT is the idea. Factions have more responsibilities than indies- we can all agree with that. Those responsibilities include keeping your RP in good condition, or you go poof- we can agree with that. Find one instance of a faction member going ooRP, the faction leader finding out about it, and the faction leader not getting disappointed and pissed off.

Random people on the server don't have anyone holding stuff over their head to keep stuff fun unless they break a server rule. A fair share of people say "Okay, fine by me, let them do whatever the hell they want as long as its within server rules." Its a logical argument on the surface.

Problem- Suppose a criminal faction ship sees a Bounty Hunter ship passing nearby. The criminal ship fires a CD at the BHG without hailing him, and then flings a few missiles/torps/razors/whatevers into his hull. The BHG dies. The criminal carries on his merry way, the Bounty Hunter changes character for four hours and doesn't go for revenge. No server rule has been broken.

Did the BHG player have fun? No, they got ganked. It doesn't matter whether by capship, bomber, cannonball missile, or camera ship shoving them into a planet- they got ganked, and didn't have fun. Maybe even the criminal didn't have fun, it might have felt like a hollow victory.

Now here's the rub- if this is routine behavior for a player, they get disliked and might get a bounty on their heads. If this is routine behavior for a faction, official or not, they get flamed, bountied, KoS'd, and possibly banned off the server, depending on the severity.

Even with the people who do this anyway and never get found out, you can safely assume that some 60-80% of tagged characters will probably not be doing this kind of thing. If it was more, threads would crop up and cull the problem tags.

The random people on the server, however, rarely find out this isn't model behavior. There are no official complaints unless they break a server rule, and unless the person PMs them asking why that was really necessary, then they might not even recognize the other guy didn't enjoy the encounter. There is no pseudo-parental force scolding them- the admins, the closest thing, have better things to do.

This is why people tend to trust factions, official or otherwise. There is a guiding force behind the actions of the group, and if you learn how that force works (by, say, reading the posts of the leader or talking to them on skype or ingame) then you can predict what you trust the group to do. You might not trust them in a positive sense, but they become predictable enough to handle easily- if they are prone to KoS'ing BHG, then if you want to fly your hunter through a system full of them, you might want to fly 14k above the galactic plane. If they are known to not KoS anything, then you fly straight through. Either way, you know what to expect, and can use background information to shape a more interesting RP experience.

Common ground is the source of good chatter- if you and the other guy have nothing in common, then you can only talk at each other, not to each other. If you see some person floating around, you try to develop a sense of what they might be- between their ship, their ID, their tag, and their equipment, what might they be? That's where talk comes from.



I kind of got to rambling there, but I hope I got the idea across. I'm not too happy with Unselie's statement there, but I don't blame her for it. Akumabito is very good at pulling the worst out of people so he can nail them for it. Its a useful skill, if not a nice one. He might make a good minister of propaganda for some dictatorship somewhere. If you're reading this, Akumabito, consider it. Seriously, you're perfect for the job.

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[Oniros]

I think what Tink is trying to say is :
Open yours eyes and see when waves are coming. Surf on the waves instead of rising a wall to block the waves. Saying that the wall is stronger than any incoming waves is just a way to say that you hate any movement, and you can crush any mouvement.
The server is an open ocean. The ocean is the community and you are like anyone else, a wave on the ocean. Whoever you are and whatever the responsabilities you have, do not transform the ocean into a dying sea.

How the community can open his arms and allow the server to evolve with the newcomers ? Lead by exemple is a good attitude. XA try to lead by exemple, that's the idea, and they are succesful since they came on the scene.

There is two words i learned to describe the Power.
Potentia : power to do
Potestas : power to make people do someting.
Some people use their potestas by submitting potentia for their personnal goal.
Some people use their potestas to drive people, allowing them to use their potentia for a common goal.

This not idealism, just a common trait about political leaders, you know, those that claim to represent the majority.

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"Perfection, honesty, devotion"
"Immortality is our subconscious main concern"
"To change the system, you have to be inside the system and play by the rules"

[n00bl3t]

I don't have the nerve to argue here.

I laugh at something here. It is realy something that is unjust , but Shigeo Kitamura - Hogosha can't expain is this.

If a clan declares an indie hostile and destroy them over and over again , that is correct RP , because the "majoroty" has rights , not the singular player. BUT

What happens when indies of a given faction , deside they have had enough and using the same or RP excuses deside to simply....DESOMATE the clan.

Now "Clans have more people , they will never be able to ..balalala" - Clans aren't always a 5-6 people online job. Most of the time they are just 1-2 players ... BUT here is where the infairness starts.

Clans have leaders. Leaders have to have connections to get aproved , so it's easy for them to make the admins ban/sanction the players who they cannot stop. Because , and trust me on that one , if the indies some clans have desided to chase away , deside to unite and RP wise use the stupid and REALY REALY OLD excuse of something like "omg he is corrupted KILL HIM" , what are you going to do then ?

I know what you mean. It ss like copy/paste from everything else that has been typed. Get a bot to read keywords of another's post and post what's already been posted?:P

Well. I think I should PM you about what has been said here.

Have to have connections to get approved? I'd one hundred percent disagree with that notion, I don't know where people are getting the idea that the official factions are in some joint conspiracy with the admins to hunt down and exterminate all indys, I really don't.

Second point, some of the factions do represent the entirety of that faction.

Liberty Rogues we are the entirety of the Liberty Rogues and I would expect independent rogues to respect that, although we treat them according to thier ship class so a captain of a Destroyer only has to listen to the orders from the myself or my two seconds.

Rheinland military is the entirety of the Rheinland Military and acts accordingly

Kusari naval forces equally so.

Liberty security Force respects indy rights in the main as does the LPI.

Most of the player factions have no issue with indys, someone wants to fly around in a Rogue Gunboat pirating, I'm all for it. Let them have fun. Someone wnats to hang around New York in a Outcast Destroyer killing every fighter that steps into his path, so that I get a hundred PMs and Skype messages from peeved indys and faction members alike I ain't all for that. What people seem to be missing is that despite the fact we don't control you the factions still get flak for poorly RP'd independents, people telling us to reign them in. When we try to we get flak from the independents. A faction leader's life is one filled with endless complications and not a job for the faint hearted, ask any faction leader how much time he gets to play the game. I guarantee you it isn't as much as you think. It's no surprise that some of them lose patience when folks jump on them for even the slightest breach in demeanour. They, like you are only human.

Let's kill this debate between Indies and Factioned folks once and for all. The factions don't hate indies. The indies shouldn't hate factions. So long as everyone RP's or trys to then we should all just get along and enjoy what time we have to play.

You say that the factions do not hate independent players, but then you say the independents should not hate factions. This implies that factions are devoid of all hate and independent players are absolutely brewing hate. Most of the personal attacks, derogatory pictures, and such, I have seen have come from the faction side.

Who hates who? Look at what is here and judge it yourself.

(I sincerely hope that there is no hate.)

This is why people tend to trust factions, official or otherwise. There is a guiding force behind the actions of the group, and if you learn how that force works (by, say, reading the posts of the leader or talking to them on skype or ingame) then you can predict what you trust the group to do. You might not trust them in a positive sense, but they become predictable enough to handle easily- if they are prone to KoS'ing BHG, then if you want to fly your hunter through a system full of them, you might want to fly 14k above the galactic plane. If they are known to not KoS anything, then you fly straight through. Either way, you know what to expect, and can use background information to shape a more interesting RP experience.

Common ground is the source of good chatter- if you and the other guy have nothing in common, then you can only talk at each other, not to each other. If you see some person floating around, you try to develop a sense of what they might be- between their ship, their ID, their tag, and their equipment, what might they be? That's where talk comes from.
I kind of got to rambling there, but I hope I got the idea across. I'm not too happy with Unselie's statement there, but I don't blame her for it. Akumabito is very good at pulling the worst out of people so he can nail them for it. Its a useful skill, if not a nice one. He might make a good minister of propaganda for some dictatorship somewhere. If you're reading this, Akumabito, consider it. Seriously, you're perfect for the job.

Which 101st member will talk with me?

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Ion]

Which 101st member will talk with me?

I will. I'd be happy to help you get sorted out.

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