Junker Roleplay in light of new Lawful ID

[Ponge]

Here is the picture evidence for the incident.
Lythrilux, the point of the quasi-lawful IDs are, that they should be able to do lawful things if they want, and not get blown up by law enforcement in the process. If I want to haul water with my Junker all day, I should be able to do it without being killed.

If they kill me just because I am "junker scum", now that is DISCRIMINATION. Even most Rogues are told to leave the system before the pewfest starts, and won't be shot on if they do. This guy did not even have a choice. Why is it allowed to kill a quasi-lawful, if he did not do anything bad? If Junkers cannot do lawful stuff and lawful hauls because they will be killed on the spot, then they are not quasi-lawful any more, but treated as an unlawful criminal. This destroys the main point of the category itself.

Oh, and to further emphasis on discrimination, why don't they kill Zoners, Freelancers and even LSF for just being "quasi-lawful scum"? Only Junkers (and mostly Congress members) are the victims.

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[Sarawr!?]

I'm pretty sure that Junkers and other Quasi-lawfuls will be absolutely fine unless they're actually caught doing something criminal.

I can guarantee that much, at least with the [LN], we're not gonna bother people unless we see something wrong. (And I'm pretty sure this will be the stance taken by Official Lawful Factions in other houses as well.)

(Obviously I can't make that guarantee for indies, but I -will- try to stop them from acting without reason as best I can.)

Note: I don't just fly [LN].

I also fly a Freelancer ID'd Pilgrim Liner, The Heavy Metal Queen, and I fly for the Unione Corse [UC] as well, both quasilawful, and I'm not as worried as half of you guys are.

There's no reason to panic, I mean you guys are acting like House authorities never shot at Junkers and Freelancers before...one line isn't going to make things all that different, they still can't attack without a reason, so that's not changed, so really...relax.

Is that a fact?
Well let me share with you the latest incident.
We will know more when the evidence is shown but I am sure there will be ALOT more of these types of situations in the near future.

Comm System: Open

Sender: Slainte

Location: Rochester Med Bay

Strange days my friends.

Making my way to Puerto Rico i was stopped by the LN who proceeded to scan me and then open fire with little or no warning.
I tried to run but he caught me and, eventually with an LPI in tow, destroyed my ship.
I am recovering from the experience in the med bay and am quite sure i can patch The.Finder up but it may take a while, lots of bits you see!
I can supply a comms copy if any of you wish to view it.

Yours aye

Slainte

Comm Channel: Closed

Not to hijack this thread or anything buuut, I clearly said in my post that I can't guarantee anything when it comes to indies, and if that incident involved a member of the official [LN], give me a name.

Onto the larger issue, let me get this straight:

What we're talking about here is removing something that, to me at least, serves to encourage MORE RP, or making people think on their feet, out of the fear of indies or jerks ruining things?

Jerks ruining things are the reason why there are admins and a sanction process. Chances are, if somebody is going to blow you up just for having a "Quasi-lawful ID", they're going to commit some sort of rule violation in the process.

Come on people, use your heads.

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[LN] Recruitment | Rachel Baker Bio

[Govedo13]

So much room for ....activities

http://s263.photobucket.com/user/Slainte...d.png.html
Good work siЯ. I hope it is obvious enough and made its point, hence it would be fixed next version. Till then I would also declare junkers and the rest as open season, idiotic RP helps sometimes in weird way.

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Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Kazinsal]

Lawfuls being allowed to blindly open fire on Junkers with a few lines that boil down to "you are quasilawful, I can shoot you, you will be shot at now" ENCOURAGES roleplay?

Until such time that indies can't run around ruining people's fun without repercussions, this kind of thing is bad.

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Retired, permanently.

[Sarawr!?]

Lawfuls being allowed to blindly open fire on Junkers with a few lines that boil down to "you are quasilawful, I can shoot you, you will be shot at now" ENCOURAGES roleplay?

Until such time that indies can't run around ruining people's fun without repercussions, this kind of thing is bad.

I don't disagree with you here, Troy, I really don't...but I mean, come on.

I used to fly around with a SLAVER ID, in a PILGRIM LINER, at a time when -everyone and their mother- knew inRP, that the ship in question, was used for illicit activities.

I didn't go panicking or making threads about getting blown up with an empty hold or the suchlike.

Now, I still fly that same ship, for that same purpose, with a Freelancer ID. I'm still not panicking or freaking out.

Now I agree, indies should have limitations placed upon them, or factions should be given more power, but I've always (more or less) thought that way, but that's a topic for another thread...

I do understand the frustration and all, but should we as a community really bow our heads or shy away from more possibilities, simply because they -could- be manipulated by morons, jerks, or people who just don't know any better?

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[LN] Recruitment | Rachel Baker Bio

[Thexare]

What possibilities are created by "you can shoot these people regardless of what they're doing" that weren't present in 4.86?

[Sarawr!?]

What possibilities are created by "you can shoot these people regardless of what they're doing" that weren't present in 4.86?

It isn't so much a possibility for the lawful ID's, that isn't what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that, in a perfect world where indies in capships can't roll up to a trader and blow them away just coz, the increased pressure on quasilawful players would, perhaps, encourage them to RP more, to think on their feet and learn how to talk their way out of a situation.

And let me tell you, I'm fairly disappointed in the way this community is going all around lately. Most of the time I see "Quasi-lawful traders", they're either silently moving along their routes and don't respond to anything you say to them, or they respond with a bare minimum inRP reply. OR, they reply in goddamn emoticons.

Now I know, Lawfuls, and outright Unlawfuls do this as well, and it's really not great...buuut again, I digress, that's a topic for another thread.

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[LN] Recruitment | Rachel Baker Bio

[Ponge]

I agree that this totally kills the quasi-lawfuls' RP. LolRawr!?, before this, a Junker with even an empty hold was subject to lengthy interrogations about why are they there, where they are going, etc, and was let go if they proved they did nothing wrong. Now: Junker? Pew! Where did the RP go, may I ask? How does this serve the benefit of an RP server? It was not RP what these guys did, and the Junker did not even had a CHANCE to RP his way out of this situation, he was killed before he could say anything.
Kazinsal, I see it bothers you, too. Just think about it: now LN can enter Kansas and shoot up any NO ships in sight with no RP, just because. NO uses Freelancer (now quasi-lawful) IDs, right?

By the way, people always boast about that this is an RP server, and we have to RP before doing ANYTHING. Now what these guys did was not RP from my point of view. Then how is this envouraging RP, tell me?

And I still find it interesting that this happened only to Junkers so far. No reports from Zoners, Freelancers, Hogosha, LSF...

An Admin opinion would be good to see, as this problem seems to be escalating towards a wrong way.

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[Kazinsal]

I understand your point, Sarah, but not EVERY person with attachment to a quasilawful faction -- whether they be Junkers or Hogosha or freelancers or Vagrant Raiders or whomever -- is inherently committing illegal acts.

This isn't a case about a known slave transport being blown up for being in a bad position. This is a case about a random person doing nothing that is clearly against any house laws being blown up for sitting there simply because the lawfuls are allowed to do that now.

That Junker couldn't RP his way out of it -- his Salvager was too busy getting crushed by a battleship.

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Retired, permanently.

[Sarawr!?]

An interesting thing to note: The Libertonian Legal Codex does -not- list any Quasilawful ID's as criminal, so it goes to show that the people blowing up Quasilawful ships, at least in Liberty, are not in fact, interested in RP.

And/Or, they actually have a reason to do so more than just what the lawful ID's now allow.

I will say this though, I don't think it's entirely fair to target quasilawfuls just for sitting on tradelanes, maybe the line should be amended to say "May attack quasilawfuls associated with criminal organizations" or "May attack quasilawfuls known to partake in criminal activities" or something like that.

I do think that "Sitting near tradelanes" is an odd reasoning.

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[LN] Recruitment | Rachel Baker Bio