Admin Notice: Temporary Zoner ID Change

[Corile]

Zoners are civilians who have rejected house rule. They are usually isolationists, and prefer to live outside of house borders, unburdened by house laws.

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Reflections on the Revolution in Gallia
Custodi // High City of Heraklion // The Cult of Archangels
Log Filter // Post Creator // Manhattan

[Gypsie Skripto]

You might've missed the part where it was Zoners assisting Order against Core that kicked this all off. Would it not be reasonable to expect a few fringe Zoners to hold other Zoners or the Order responsible? Just think about it.

Am I the only one who remembers Order rephacking Zoners to be hostile not so long ago?

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[Jayce]

You might've missed the part where it was Zoners assisting Order against Core that kicked this all off. Would it not be reasonable to expect a few fringe Zoners to hold other Zoners or the Order responsible? Just think about it.

Am I the only one who remembers Order rephacking Zoners to be hostile not so long ago?

Not at all, buddy. Not at all.

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[Arioch]

Sure this is not ideal, sure there are going to be server violations, however the DROP event did reveal the massive activity potential and it already did prove it again by topping to 115 players. It's not like it happens every week either.

If anything this should tell you to be a bit broader in your objectives. Zoners may be pictured as space hippies, but while you may get your personal disco kick by logging your IRG ship once every two months, that's probably not the case for the myriad of zoners you and the other zoner leaders are supposed to be taking care of and give things to do. As a matter of fact, the zoner 1ics give absolutely nothing to do, even less in attempts at major developments involving the faction as a whole.

Go be productive and have fun. Look at this as an opportunity.

That's a little harsh to say, given I made it clear I was going to be away for RL stuff for a while, and already have over 10 hours this month on various IRG ships. So please don't presume to call into question when I log and such. not really fair Alley. Nor don't presume to tell me that I have not done anything for Zoners and have not attempt to have major developments involving the faction. Please ask Rohj and our conversations regarding such. or ask those in the various Zoner chats where we have brainstormed on things to do (FP11 supplies AFTER the Drop event as an example). Would appreciate getting your facts straight before stating such.

Listen, I am all for adding fun stuff to do in Delta. The DROPS was a blast and i loved every minute of it. I also do not view Zoners as space hippies who will never shoot or act aggressive. Don't assume that either.

My issue though is that this goes against a lot of lore, as evident from discussions with both official and unofficial Zoner players. Zoners are not a military. That was not changed by me, that was not created by me. That is the lore that we all have worked with. but Zoners have, should, and will defend themselves, and if pushed, will push back if the situation demands it. But to add a line that then turns them into a aggressive, offensive group, detracts from the lore and RP built surrounding the Zoners. Zoners that hate violence and are pacifists are one extreme yes. But to have a "Can shoot anyone" is another extreme that frankly goes against a lot of the established lore (again, before my time even). There should've been a compromise, or stating that Zoners can shoot Core only. Not a open blanket "attack anyone" line.

@Petitioner , I never once have told you or really anyone how to RP a Zoner. Really hope you don't think that. As i stated above, I am all for pushing back and retaliating if need be, but such an open line does bother me. Also to your point about Zoner "laws". I get people have an issue with some of them, but if you really look at them, they're rules/laws to keep peace. You can't have a group or organization operate without any type of rules or laws - Is it really that far fethced to have Zoners, who operate FREEPorts, to apply station laws to protect Zoners and non-Zoners alike on it? I don't see how "Keep engagements away from this station" or "Don't pirate here as it's a Freeport" are outlandish or don't make sense.

Regardless, all of this is my own personal opinion, shared by many as well, but still my own opinion. Disregard it, ignore it, agree with it, etc. I'm just stating that the lore and RP behind Zoners really doesn't make sense when combined with an open "can attack anyone" line. That's a little too much imo. Attack Core, or attack those who have shot at Zoners, makes perfect sense and in my mind should be allowed.

[Black Widow]

Sure this is not ideal, sure there are going to be server violations, however the DROP event did reveal the massive activity potential and it already did prove it again by topping to 115 players. It's not like it happens every week either.

If anything this should tell you to be a bit broader in your objectives. Zoners may be pictured as space hippies, but while you may get your personal disco kick by logging your IRG ship once every two months, that's probably not the case for the myriad of zoners you and the other zoner leaders are supposed to be taking care of and give things to do. As a matter of fact, the zoner 1ics give absolutely nothing to do, even less in attempts at major developments involving the faction as a whole.

Go be productive and have fun. Look at this as an opportunity.

That's a little harsh to say, given I made it clear I was going to be away for RL stuff for a while, and already have over 10 hours this month on various IRG ships. So please don't presume to call into question when I log and such. not really fair Alley. Nor don't presume to tell me that I have not done anything for Zoners and have not attempt to have major developments involving the faction. Please ask Rohj and our conversations regarding such. or ask those in the various Zoner chats where we have brainstormed on things to do (FP11 supplies AFTER the Drop event as an example). Would appreciate getting your facts straight before stating such.

Listen, I am all for adding fun stuff to do in Delta. The DROPS was a blast and i loved every minute of it. I also do not view Zoners as space hippies who will never shoot or act aggressive. Don't assume that either.

My issue though is that this goes against a lot of lore, as evident from discussions with both official and unofficial Zoner players. Zoners are not a military. That was not changed by me, that was not created by me. That is the lore that we all have worked with. but Zoners have, should, and will defend themselves, and if pushed, will push back if the situation demands it. But to add a line that then turns them into a aggressive, offensive group, detracts from the lore and RP built surrounding the Zoners. Zoners that hate violence and are pacifists are one extreme yes. But to have a "Can shoot anyone" is another extreme that frankly goes against a lot of the established lore (again, before my time even). There should've been a compromise, or stating that Zoners can shoot Core only. Not a open blanket "attack anyone" line.

@Petitioner , I never once have told you or really anyone how to RP a Zoner. Really hope you don't think that. As i stated above, I am all for pushing back and retaliating if need be, but such an open line does bother me. Also to your point about Zoner "laws". I get people have an issue with some of them, but if you really look at them, they're rules/laws to keep peace. You can't have a group or organization operate without any type of rules or laws - Is it really that far fethced to have Zoners, who operate FREEPorts, to apply station laws to protect Zoners and non-Zoners alike on it? I don't see how "Keep engagements away from this station" or "Don't pirate here as it's a Freeport" are outlandish or don't make sense.

Regardless, all of this is my own personal opinion, shared by many as well, but still my own opinion. Disregard it, ignore it, agree with it, etc. I'm just stating that the lore and RP behind Zoners really doesn't make sense when combined with an open "can attack anyone" line. That's a little too much imo. Attack Core, or attack those who have shot at Zoners, makes perfect sense and in my mind should be allowed.

Hey Finn.

I have read both sides of the arguement here and I seem to find flaws in your points. First off Zoners may not be a military faction but they are definitely equipped like one. You have carriers, dreadnoughts and levianthans to your name and more advanced technology than most houses.


If it were true that Zoner lore meant that they did not outrightly defend themselves because they have always been reliant on third party help. Then what is the point in zoners havin such large warships?

Living out in the omicrons is dangerous thus given the current state of play. Zoners would be mad not to impose martial law on Omicron Delta!

Tldr:

If you want to make your points stick the reality of the faction ingame needs to reflect the lore. Become defenseless zoners by removing zoner battleships as they dont need them. Or man up, muster your fleets and the defend system. Zoners face obliteration. Question is does your rp / lore fit reality? To me it seems a bit disjointed.


Freeport 11 is gonna get wiped out. Trust me

[Arioch]

1 - Nephs are Colony ships, outfitted to defend the colonies they hold. That's the lore. I'm not in favor of removing them, but i am in favor of lessening the amount of damage they can inflict, cause you're right - it doesn't match the lore that they are COLONY ships, not battleships. Carriers - I personally view them as more jumpships/cargo ships/etc. not the beast that say the liberty Carrier is. So I agree there as well. Zoners have them, but not for offensive operations in my mind (hell the model has a snub and a transport included in the hanger bay). The Leviathan is, by it's lore, an alien ship that Zoners don't fully understand, but built the neph's based off the technology found. Not for war, but for colony ships and to defend themselves.

2 - I do agree with you, that living in the Omicrons is dangerous. I agree that Zoners should defend themselves. I agree that they would go "Alright, enough is enough. Anyone attacking Zoners is going to get retaliated against". Perfectly acceptable. Just that line of blanket "can attack anyone" worries me. Zoners should and can defend themselves, but I agree they don't have need for a "BATTLEship" equipped for war.

I will state though that I had a chat with Spazzy, and I better understand why they added the line. My worry is the fact that it is very exploitable (Though as Spazzy pointed out, anything can be exploitable). Anyway, we'll see how it plays out. I am though glad it's bringing activity and you do get to see Zoners as not just pacifists but willing to stand their ground.

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